On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent
- Rep. Ilhan Omar, Democrat of Minnesota
- Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut
- Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb
Click on right here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: On this vacation season, with extra Individuals saying they’re feeling the ache of upper costs, we are going to discuss completely with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent.
As Washington winds down 2025, there’s nonetheless numerous unfinished enterprise for Congress and President Trump. And, as Trump’s protection secretary, Pete Hegseth, doubles down on these boat strikes within the Caribbean…
(Start VT)
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Protection Secretary): We’re monitoring them, we’re killing them, and we are going to hold killing them as long as they’re poisoning our individuals with narcotics so deadly that they are tantamount to chemical weapons.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … the talk over whether or not they have been lawful ramps up on Capitol Hill.
We are going to discuss with the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Connecticut’s Jim Himes.
Plus, the deportation roundups proceed within the nation’s cities, this time concentrating on communities in Minneapolis, together with the congresswoman who represents a lot of the metropolis.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the US): Ilhan Omar is rubbish. She’s rubbish. Her mates are rubbish. These aren’t those who work.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We are going to discuss with Consultant Ilhan Omar.
And, lastly, a significant change to vaccine steerage for newborns beneficial by a panel of advisers chosen by Well being Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
(Start VT)
DR. CODY MEISSNER (Advisory Committee On Immunization Practices): Now we have heard do no hurt is an ethical crucial. We’re doing hurt.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb joins us to interrupt all of it down.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. Now we have numerous information to get to.
And we start with the secretary of the treasury, Scott Bessent.
Good to have you ever right here.
SCOTT BESSENT (U.S. Treasury Secretary): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Secretary, lots of people are on the market vacation procuring. Right here is how the president described again in April what to anticipate from this season.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the US): Possibly the kids could have two dolls, as an alternative of 30 dolls, you recognize? And perhaps the 2 dolls will value a few bucks greater than they’d usually.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was the president’s prediction then appropriate?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Margaret, it is truly been a really sturdy vacation season, and the – you recognize, we have seen throughout the – all of the revenue cohorts to date. And so there’s nothing to say that there are two dolls, as an alternative of 30 dolls.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president was flawed to foretell decrease numbers of purchases and better costs?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: The economic system has been higher than we thought. We have had the 4 – 4 p.c GDP progress in a few quarters. We will end the 12 months, regardless of the Schumer shutdown, with 3 p.c actual GDP progress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the maker of Tonka vans, their CEO stated it’ll value 40 bucks for his or her toys proper now due to tariffs and inflation. It was 30 bucks the 12 months earlier than that, 25.
Costs within the toy area are accelerating, and persons are feeling that.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, Margaret, inflation is a composite quantity, and it is roughly the identical 12 months over 12 months. And if we have been to have a look at all imported items, imported items inflation is beneath the inflation quantity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The inflation quantity, you imply the…
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: The PC – the PCE quantity, which is about 2.9 p.c. Imported items inflation is about 1.8. It is the service economic system that is producing inflation, which truly has nothing to do with tariffs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However once we hear from, for instance, the president, when he says that affordability is a con job by Democrats, that appears to simply not be resonating with customers which have been polled by CBS.
Sixty p.c of Individuals polled by this community instructed us President Trump makes costs and inflation sound higher than they are surely. And his approval ranking within the economic system is now all the way down to 36 p.c in our newest ballot. On inflation, approval is even decrease, at 32 p.c.
Do not it’s essential to present that you just really feel the ache?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, Margaret, I believe the president’s annoyed by the media protection of what is going on on and…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, that is the polling of common Individuals.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: No, no, however – sure, however I believe…
MARGARET BRENNAN: I imply…
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: … the common Individuals, they’re listening to loads from media protection.
And I’ll let you know that affordability has two parts. There may be inflation after which there’s actual incomes. Actual incomes are up about 1 p.c. And what we’re not going to do is say that Individuals do not know what they’re feeling. We have been engaged on it daily.
I used to be in your present on March speaking about affordability. The – we have made numerous positive factors, however, bear in mind, we have this embedded inflation from the Biden years, the place mainstream media, whether or not it was Greg Ip at “The Wall Road Journal,” poisonous Paul Krugman at “New York Instances,” or former Vice Chair Alan Blinder, all stated it was a vibecession, the American individuals do not know the way good they’ve it.
Now, Democrats created shortage, whether or not it was in vitality or overregulation, that we at the moment are seeing the – this affordability downside, and I believe, subsequent 12 months, we will transfer on to prosperity as a result of…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You do assume there’s an affordability downside?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You do consider there’s an affordability downside?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Oh, I – I believe the Biden administration created a horrible…
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, however now. We’re almost 12 months in. You stated the president would personal the economic system at this level.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: I – the – the – sure, I stated that the Biden administration created the worst inflation in 50 years, and perhaps, for working Individuals, the worst inflation of all time.
And we’ve got pulled that quantity down, that Strategas Analysis does one thing referred to as the Frequent Man index. Beneath Biden, the accrued inflation quantity, as measured by CPI, was about 20 p.c. Their index confirmed 35. This 12 months, for the primary time, the Frequent Man index is beneath the inflation index as a result of the basket of products for working Individuals, meals, gasoline, hire, is coming down.
So I wrote an essay March 12, 2024, and it talked in regards to the three I’s, immigration…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: … rates of interest and inflation.
Immigrant – mass, unfettered immigration depressed wages, brought about housing costs to go up. The president has closed the border. That’s fastened. Rates of interest have come down. The bond market simply had the most effective 12 months since 2020. And now we’re engaged on inflation. And I count on inflation to roll down strongly subsequent 12 months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, I imply, grocery costs are up almost 3 p.c in comparison with final September.
The president appears to be acknowledging that grocery costs, or a minimum of beef costs, are a problem, as a result of he put out this order simply yesterday saying they will examine company worth gouging for prime beef costs.
Is not suing the meals firms the identical factor the Biden administration did, and it did not actually work? How is that this any totally different?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, nothing the – nothing the Biden administration did labored.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So why are you doing it?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: And the – as a result of this is not the identical factor. In the event that they – if that they had executed this, in the event that they’d executed it correctly, we might be in a special spot. And, like, beef is one element. Thanksgiving Turkey was down 16 p.c.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, I do know you might be engaged on the commerce entrance and for American farmers and the costs that they’re experiencing, that they are feeling a pinch about not having a market to promote into, essentially.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Not – not anymore.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the agricultural secretary simply stated that the president goes to announce a bridge cost for farmers this week to provide them short-term aid whilst you’re engaged on these – finalizing these commerce packages.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, the – the…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are these low crop costs, and the soybeans specifically.
I do know you spoke with China’s vice premier Friday. Are they going to hurry buying up?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, they are not going to hurry buying up. They’re within the cadence that we agreed to. Soybean costs are up about 12 or 15 p.c because the settlement with the Chinese language. They’re going to purchase 12.5 million metric tons.
However, Margaret, I am concerned within the agricultural business. I run a soybean farm, and I can let you know…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You personal one. You spend money on it.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You personal or make investments a soybean farm.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: And other people in my household exit and work on it. I truly simply divested it this week as a part of the – my ethics settlement, so I am out of that enterprise.
However I most likely know extra about any treasury secretary than – about agriculture because the 1800s. And I can let you know that what farmers want is certainty. And we’ve got put that in place with this commerce deal, 12.5 million metric tons this 12 months, 25 million metric tons for the subsequent three years for soybeans, additionally sorghum, the – and lumber.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So – so, these purchases, simply to make clear, these will probably be this 12 months? As a result of I heard you say this previous week that among the purchases would not happen till February.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, for the – for the season, so the crop 12 months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The season 12 months?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
However why – if every part’s effective, then why do farmers want a bridge cost from the Agricultural Division?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why would farmers want a bridge cost from the Agriculture Division then?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: As a result of these costs have not are available in, as a result of the Chinese language truly used our soybean farmers as pawns within the commerce negotiations.
And we’re going to create – create this bridge, as a result of, once more, agriculture is all in regards to the future. You have to begin financing for planning subsequent 12 months, when issues will probably be excellent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you about one thing that was introduced this previous week, the Trump Accounts, and constructing on this idea.
S, mother and father, as I perceive, are going to have the ability to open these accounts by way of the Treasury for his or her youngsters. They’re tax-deferred funding autos to U.S. citizen youngsters below 18, get $1,000 from the federal government for infants born between 2025 and 2028.
So there are going to be restrictions on what the cash can be utilized for, faculty tuition or their first home. Is that proper?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: No, it’s, the federal authorities for youngsters born within the interval you simply described, goes to place $1,000 into these Trump Accounts. It will likely be invested in a broadly diversified, low-cost index, after which it will likely be obtainable…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Within the inventory market, in an exchange-traded fund or mutual fund.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: So, in essence, it’s a belief fund. It’s a piece of the American economic system for each little one, and they’ll be capable of take it out once they’re 18, or they will convert it to a extra IRA-type program and hold it for his or her retirement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, there will not be the restrictions I discussed there about how they use the cash?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: No.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
So there was additionally a broadening of this, this previous week, with the Dell Basis…
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … making a major funding within the American youngsters.
So how is that this going to work? Why construction it this manner, as an alternative of a financial savings account, for instance?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, a financial savings account simply will get curiosity. That is the compounding energy of the inventory market.
As Warren Buffett says, do not – do not wager towards the American inventory market. Do not wager towards the economic system. And that is going to carry a complete group of recent traders into the market. We will couple it with an enormous quantity of economic literacy, in order that youngsters perceive what they personal.
The unbelievable present by Michael and Susan Dell would be the – is a program that philanthropists, foundations can do to prime up these accounts. And we predict – we’re already – Treasury is already in discussions with foundations, with main philanthropists to prime up these accounts.
It might both be for all youngsters, or you’ll be able to specify it by zip code, a college district, or you are able to do what the Dells did, and say that it will likely be – will not apply to the zip codes of the highest 20 p.c of earners.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And extra data goes to be popping out on easy methods to use this and entry it?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure, within the coming weeks, we’ll try this, after which the official kickoff will probably be July 5.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Earlier than I allow you to go, I need to ask you about this large fraud out in Minnesota, and the state welfare program has been below federal investigation since all the way in which again in 2022.
The president instructed you, although, this week, to look into Somalis who – quote – “ripped off that state for billions of {dollars}.” He stated they contribute nothing. What precisely are you investigating?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, Margaret, to be clear, the preliminary fraud that was found by the IRS, for which I am the appearing commissioner, it was found by IRS Felony Investigations Unit.
This was not an endogenous factor that the state of Minnesota determined. We needed to go in and clear up the mess for them, and that is a part of the continued cleanup. Some huge cash has been transferred the – from the people who dedicated this fraud, together with those that donated to the federal government, governor, donated to Consultant Omar and donated to A.G. Ellison.
However they have been transferred to one thing referred to as MBSes. The – and people are…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mortgage-backed securities? What do you imply?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Transferred to what?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: These are cash the bureau companies, and they’re wire switch organizations which are outdoors the regulated banking system, and that cash has gone abroad.
And we’re monitoring that, the – each to the Center East and Somalia to see what the makes use of of which have been.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, however you haven’t any proof of that cash getting used to gasoline terrorism, which is what some conservative writers are alleging?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, that is why – that is why it is an investigation. We began it final week. We’ll see the place it goes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: However I can let you know that, you recognize, it is horrible.
You already know, Consultant Omar tried to downplay it, stated, oh, it was very – – the – it was very powerful to know the way this cash ought to – must be used.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: She was gaslighting the American individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, we’ll discuss to her.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure.
However, you recognize, if you come to this nation, you bought to study which aspect of the highway to drive on, you bought to study to cease at cease indicators, and you bought to study the – to not defraud the American individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, there are many – loads of prison conduct from communities effectively past the immigrant neighborhood.
However we’ll speak about this with Consultant Omar shortly.
Thanks, Mr. Secretary.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Good.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be again in a minute. Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by Minnesota Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.
Welcome to this system.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR (D-Minnesota): Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Now we have loads to get to with you, however I need to choose up on the place the treasury secretary simply left off.
He alleged that individuals who have been tied to you or your marketing campaign have been concerned on this broad, brazen scheme to tear off the Minnesota state welfare system. Do you need to reply to that? Have you learnt what he’s referring to?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: I actually do not, and I do not assume the secretary himself understands what he is referring to.
We clearly had individuals who have been capable of donate to our marketing campaign that have been concerned. We despatched that cash again a pair years in the past. And, truly, I used to be one of many first members of Congress to ship a letter to the secretary of ag asking them to look into what I believed was a reprehensible fraud that was occurring throughout the program.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So this was – only for our viewers, the Biden period Justice Division referred to as it the biggest COVID fraud scheme within the nation, and this was pocketing COVID period welfare funds, greater than a billion {dollars} in taxpayer cash that was stolen. It was fairly, fairly surprising.
Of the 87 individuals charged, all however eight are of Somali descent, and that has added to the highlight being put particularly in your neighborhood. Why do you assume this fraud was allowed to get so widespread?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Properly, I need to say, you recognize, this additionally has an influence on Somalis, as a result of we’re additionally taxpayers in Minnesota.
We additionally might have benefited from this system and the cash that was stolen. And so it has been actually irritating for individuals to not acknowledge the truth that we’re – you recognize, we’re additionally, as Minnesotans, as taxpayers, actually upset and indignant in regards to the fraud that has occurred.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, do you assume, although, that there was a failure by the Democratic state authorities to police itself? It is a brazen fraudulent exercise right here.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure. And that’s what I alluded to in my letter that I had despatched to the secretary of ag was to see the place issues have been going flawed. How can this sum of money disappear fraudulently with out there being alarms being set off?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: And it’s one thing that, you recognize, we’ve got to proceed to analyze. Now we have to proceed to ask these questions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of, as you recognize, one of many preliminary defenses by the group on the coronary heart of the fraud, Feeding Our Future, was to assert the probe was because of racism. Do you assume that this was all about negligence, or that it was, like, political worry of alienating the Somali neighborhood?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: So, you need to keep in mind that the lady who led this system is a Caucasian lady. And that was her means of constructing positive that this might proceed to occur through the use of no matter rhetoric that was obtainable to her.
We do know that, when the cash was stopped, they did sue the A.G. Lawyer Basic Keith Ellison defended the division in that lawsuit. It was a choose that stated it ought to proceed, that cash…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: … ought to proceed to exit. And so this wasn’t one thing that individuals weren’t . There was at all times these – these alarms.
And we are going to proceed to grasp the place issues may need gone flawed as these investigations proceed and as these fraudsters are prosecuted and despatched to jail.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, it’ll have influence on your neighborhood, as a result of we have already heard that the pinnacle of Medicare and Medicaid say they will have a brand new coverage that applies to Minnesota. You heard the treasury secretary say they’re investigating.
However there’s one other thread right here, as a result of Home Republicans and the treasury secretary simply now talked a few hyperlink to terrorism, a attainable hyperlink. He stated they’re simply now starting to look into it. How assured are you that that is a false declare?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: I am fairly assured for the time being, as a result of there are individuals who have been prosecuted and who’ve been sentenced.
If there was a linkage in that – the cash that that they had stolen going to terrorism, then that may be a failure of the FBI and our court docket system in not figuring that out and mainly charging them with – with these – with these fees.
And so I do know that, for a few years, this form of like alarm that there’s cash being transferred via the airport in luggage and going to terrorism has all – that accusation has at all times existed. There has by no means been right here and there in these accusations.
However, if that’s the case, if cash from U.S. tax {dollars} is being despatched to assist with terrorism in Somalia, we need to know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: And we would like these individuals prosecuted, and we need to make it possible for that does not ever occur once more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there are 80,000 individuals of Somali descent in your state, however the president has been very centered not simply on them, however on you.
On this extraordinary Cupboard assembly, he stated, Somalis – quote – “come from hell, they complain they usually do nothing however bitch.”
Take a hear.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the US): These are those who do nothing however complain. They complain, and from the place they got here from, they acquired nothing. We do not need them in our nation. Allow them to return to the place they got here from and repair it.
(KNOCKING SOUND)
(APPLAUSE)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Thanks very a lot, all people.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That knocking is vehement settlement from his Cupboard members there. I simply marvel what the response is in your district to have that from the best workplace within the land.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: It is disgusting. It is utterly disgusting.
These are Individuals that he’s calling rubbish. And we really feel like there’s an unhealthy obsession that he has on the Somali neighborhood and an unhealthy and creepy obsession that he has with me.
I believe it is usually actually necessary for us to keep in mind that this type of hateful rhetoric and this stage of dehumanizing can result in harmful actions by individuals who take heed to the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And 95 p.c of the Somalis in your state are U.S. residents…
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … only for readability there.
However the president has restricted all immigration processing, together with asylum claims from Somalis already on U.S. soil, together with 18 different nations. ICE reviews it has rounded up about 19 individuals, they usually put out press releases with the photographs of about 5 of them that they are saying are the worst of the worst.
Is that the whole lot of the crackdown to this point?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure, thus far, we all know, of the those who they’ve picked up in Minnesota, about 5 of them are Somalis.
And from what I’ve learn and from the those who I’ve spoken to, all of them had already had orders of removing. So these usually are not people who find themselves undocumented, however individuals who have dedicated crimes and who ought to have already been despatched in another country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you one thing else that the architect of the president’s immigration coverage, Stephen Miller, stated.
On Thanksgiving day, he posted: “No magic transformation happens when failed states cross borders. At scale, migrants and their descendants recreate the situations and terrors of their damaged homelands.”
What do you make of this argument of failure to assimilate and form of ruining America? How do you perceive this?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: I imply, after I take into consideration Stephen Miller and his white supremacist rhetoric, it jogs my memory…
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is the way you hear it.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure.
It jogs my memory of the way in which the Nazis described Jewish individuals in Germany. And, you recognize, as we all know, there have been many immigrants who’ve tried to come back to the US who’ve turned again, you recognize, one in every of them being Jewish immigrants.
We know how that individuals have been described who have been coming from Eire, Irish immigrants.
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: We know how during which individuals have been described again then when there have been Italian immigrants.
And, to me, you recognize, we’re – we’re, sure, in fact, ethnically Somali. We’re on this nation as Individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: We’re residents. We’re a productive a part of this nation, and we are going to proceed to be.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congresswoman Omar, thanks on your time at this time.
And we’ll be proper again with much more Face the Nation. Stick with us. You.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will probably be proper again with the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut, and former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to Face the Nation.
We flip now to the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes. He joins us this morning from Connecticut.
Welcome again to Face the Nation.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES (D-Connecticut): Thanks for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re one of many few lawmakers proven the categorized model of this September 2 video of the U.S. strikes on an alleged drug boat close to Venezuela, 4 strikes in complete, we’ve got realized.
You met with Admiral Bradley, who instructions Particular Operations, as effectively. The president of the US says he’s open to this video being made public. Do you assume it’s important that it grow to be public, and are you assured it will likely be?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: I believe it is actually necessary that this video be made public. It is not misplaced on anybody, in fact, that the interpretation of the video, which, you recognize, six or seven of us had a possibility to see final week, broke down exactly on get together traces.
And so that is an occasion during which I believe the American public wants to guage for itself. I understand how the general public goes to be react – goes to react, as a result of I felt my very own response.
You already know, I’ve spent years movies of deadly motion taken, usually within the terrorism context. And this video was profoundly shaking – shaken. And I believe it is necessary for Individuals to see it, as a result of, look, there’s a specific amount of sympathy on the market for going after drug runners.
However I believe it is actually necessary that individuals see what it appears to be like like when the total pressure the US army is turned on two guys who’re clinging to a bit of wooden and about to go below, simply in order that they’ve form of a visceral really feel for what it’s that we’re doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why was it – why did it shake you a lot? What particularly was bothering you?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, you recognize, and that is form of the excellence, and there is a lot to unpack right here about whether or not that is a licensed army motion, which it’s not, and proper on down as to if these have been reliable – reliable targets, they usually weren’t.
However let me return to among the opinions I’ve executed of different deadly motion. Oftentimes, when the Division of Protection takes a strike towards a terrorist in Yemen or Pakistan or wherever, you watch a video of fellows absolutely armed with AK-47s and sidearms and bombs and also you identify it, they usually’re on their strategy to do one thing horrible.
And, on this occasion, you’ll have had dangerous guys. I’ve little question that these guys have been concerned within the operating of medicine. Now, whether or not they have been operating it to the US or Europe is one more query.
However, in that occasion, these guys have been about to die. Had the US simply walked away, their little piece of wooden would have gone below the waves.
And as many occasions as Tom Cotton might say that it would not matter what they have been doing, it issues basically what they have been doing, as a result of, below the legislation – and for those who spent quarter-hour in legislation college, you recognize this – below the legislation, if somebody has been struck and is – continues to have interaction in hostilities, factors a gun at you, has a gun, they could be a reliable goal.
But when they’re outdoors of fight, they aren’t, and attacking them is a violation of the legal guidelines of battle. And these guys – and that is why the American individuals must see this video. These guys have been – have been barely alive…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: … a lot much less participating in hostilities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the DOD Regulation of Battle Guide appears to hinge numerous that on whether or not the particular person is wholly disabled from preventing, and that’s the place the secretary of protection has used language saying they’re about to return to the combat.
I’ll play for you what Secretary Hegseth stated on the Reagan Discussion board Saturday. He described what was taking place with these 4 strikes on the alleged drug operating boat.
(Start VT)
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Protection Secretary): A pair hours later, I used to be instructed, hey, there needed to be a reattack, as a result of there have been a pair people that might nonetheless be within the combat, entry to radios. There was a link-up level of one other potential boat. Medication have been nonetheless there. They have been actively interacting with them, needed to take that reattack.
I stated: “Roger. Sounds good.”
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does what Hegseth stated match what Admiral Bradley instructed you?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, there was numerous lack of readability over precisely what Pete Hegseth’s function right here was.
However Pete Hegseth has no credibility on this matter, proper? Bear in mind, every week after this strike, there was a briefing for Congress. Why was a follow-up strike taken? The reply then, within the first week of September, was, a follow-up strike was taken as a result of we would have liked to clear the wreckage in order that there wasn’t a hazard to navigation.
That was clarification primary. Clarification quantity two, proper earlier than we watched the video, was that they could have had a radio, they usually may need been radioing a ship, they usually may need been attempting to get better the cocaine. After which, if you truly watch the video, you understand they do not have a radio. They’re barely hanging on and never slipping beneath the waves.
Then, we get this factor of how they’re attempting to proper the boat. This was a few 40-foot boat that had simply been hit with an enormous piece of munitions. The conflagration most likely destroyed every part in that boat. However, oh, perhaps they could have swum below, gotten a radio, most likely waterlogged, and radioed a ship that we’re not even positive was there.
So what we have had is a sequence of shifting explanations, oh, and together with the fog of battle, proper? You already know that Hegseth stated, effectively, they took the second strike due to the fog of battle.
There was no fog. The army watched this boat very fastidiously – or I should not even say boat. They watched the wreckage of the boat very fastidiously for an extended time period earlier than they took the second strike.
So, look, what Pete Hegseth says about this strike has zero credibility at this level.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you may have confidence in Admiral Bradley?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: You already know, Admiral Bradley, this was my first assembly with him. Anybody who has ever labored with Admiral Bradley will let you know that he has a storied profession and that he’s a person of deep, deep integrity. And, frankly, I’ve no cause to doubt that.
What it raises is, what occurs when an apparently good man like Admiral Bradley is positioned in a context the place he is aware of that, if he countermands an order that he’s maybe uncomfortable with, it is extremely doubtless that he will probably be fired, when he works for a man, Pete Hegseth, who wrote a guide about how we should not observe the legal guidelines of battle, about how we have to be deadly, et cetera.
It is fascinating to consider how a very good man in that context perhaps does one thing that, if he weren’t in that context, he won’t do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, Senator Tom Cotton, the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, stated there have been dozens of JAG legal professionals observing all of this.
On NBC this morning, he stated all 11 individuals on the suspected drug smuggling boat have been legitimate targets as a result of the U.S. had excessive confidence they have been a part of a overseas terrorist group.
Have you learnt, have been these high-level cartel members?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: No, in fact not. In fact not.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who have been they? If the U.S. had excessive confidence…
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: You assume Pablo Escobar again – effectively, initially, initially, let’s be tremendous clear about this.
I do not assume we knew the identities of any of the individuals within the boat. We’d have identified one or two. I do not know. However we definitely did not know the identities of all 11. So no person can characterize who all these individuals in any of those boats are.
Now, I’ve sufficient confidence within the intelligence neighborhood to know that these are most likely not guys out fishing or guys out, you recognize, being vacationers and stuff. They’re virtually definitely operating medication. However this actually issues, given that you stated.
You already know, if you are going to occupy an immense quantity of the American Naval fight functionality, you’d wish to consider that you are going after the leaders, the cartel leaders…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: … the – the kingpins, as they are saying.
What we’re doing right here is, we’re taking out the equal of the nook drug vendor within the Bronx, proper, which, by the way in which, we should always arrest the nook drug vendor within the Bronx. However the principle cause we do that’s to go after the kingpins, who, I promise you, are sitting in very snug villas proper now in Colombia and Venezuela and all over the place, and watching as…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: … a lot of the US Navy is devoted to taking out their lowest-level staff.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I hear you saying they weren’t on an inner army goal record for high-value people. That is what I hear what you are saying.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, that is an fascinating query. I am under no circumstances satisfied that there’s a record of people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Now, that is what we do within the terrorism world, proper? We designate high-value targets, we designate people.
I’ve no cause to consider, and, in reality, I doubt that there are any people on a listing anyplace. What we’re doing – and I am not going to get terribly particular about it, for apparent causes, however what we’re doing is we’re selecting up that this boat could also be carrying medication.
And, to the administration, it would not matter who’s in that boat, as a result of – – and, look, they’re saying this – as a result of, if this boat is definitely carrying medication, then we will strike it. So, no, I do not assume there’s a record of people. I do not assume we’ve got any concept who exactly the people in these boats are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, as I perceive it, these are signature strikes. That is an intelligence evaluation based mostly on alerts intelligence saying that is who we consider these people to be.
You already know, a few of these defenders of the Trump coverage, like conservative columnists, have argued this can be a precedent that was set by the Obama administration, which used signature strikes to kill alleged al Qaeda operatives, together with a U.S. citizen at one level in Yemen.
Have they got a degree right here that the drone coverage has lengthy allowed the killing of suspected criminals even with out due course of?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, there’s a few actually necessary distinctions.
And you may keep in mind that the Obama administration, there was numerous debate over whether or not signature strikes have been OK or not. Crucial distinction is that Congress licensed the battle on terror. There was an authorization for using army pressure.
The unique sin of this complete factor – whether or not you assume we must be losing these guys or not, the unique sin is that there isn’t any congressional authorization. After which, within the Obama administration, they did have a listing of people, proper, usually high-value targets, or HVTs, as we have referred to them.
After which the query was, you probably have an HVT, a high-value goal, in a jeep in Northern Pakistan, and there is a man subsequent to that HVT, you recognize, how do you are feeling about taking that strike? You need to take down the high- worth man, however what in regards to the younger man subsequent to him? Properly, the younger man has an AK-47, and the younger man was truly arranging for the switch of explosives.
You may have that dialog, and then you definitely determine whether or not you are going to take the strike, proper? Now what we’re doing – and, once more, do not – I do not assume that there is a record of people anyplace. They’re simply saying, that boat is carrying medication. And although army isn’t licensed by the Congress of the US, we’re taking out the boat, and we do not give a rattling about who’s on it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, and if you say “I do not assume,” you’re a member of the Gang of Eight, so, presumably, that data must be shared with you if it does exist.
I need to ask you earlier than I allow you to go. Signalgate, individuals might bear in mind a number of months in the past that Trump – a Trump official added a journalist to a web based group on Sign and shared superior data of an upcoming bombing operation in Yemen.
The Pentagon inspector basic stated Hegseth’s actions risked operational safety and violated federal legal guidelines on report preserving. Hegseth stated he’d do the identical factor once more. Are your Republican colleagues saying in personal that they’ve issues with what occurred?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Completely, they’re saying it in personal.
In public, in fact, they’re saying that it was excellent exoneration, proper, that this report – and also you learn the important thing line, that this report that stated that the secretary of protection put his troops and the mission in danger, that that is complete exoneration.
Now, I did not hear the remark about: I’d do that once more.
But when Pete Hegseth stated he would try this once more – and, look, once more, you do not have to be a army skilled to grasp that sharing operational particulars earlier than an operation is a extremely, actually, actually dangerous concept. If Pete Hegseth stated that, that he would try this once more, you recognize, he is simply reinforcing what everyone knows, which is that he has completely no enterprise in that job.
Some of the delicate and troublesome jobs to do in the US authorities is being executed by someone who put his personal individuals and the mission in danger.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He stated he lives life with out remorse on the Reagan Discussion board. That was the phrase, to be extra precise.
However, Congressman Himes, at all times good to have you ever on this system. I should depart it there for at this time.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For a take a look at some current adjustments to U.S. public well being coverage, we’re joined now by former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He additionally serves on the boards of Pfizer and UnitedHealthcare.
Welcome again.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB (Former FDA Commissioner): Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You already know, there was some fairly huge information on Friday, and the American Academy of Pediatrics stated they’re deeply alarmed that the CDC vaccine advisory panel, ACIP, voted on this 8-3 resolution to vary this 30-year-long coverage concerning hepatitis B and newborns.
They’re now recommending delaying the dose till a toddler is 2 months outdated, as an alternative of inside 24 hours of delivery. What does this resolution imply for households of newborns?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure.
Properly, look, I believe we first want to grasp why we give that delivery dose of the vaccine, as a result of the concept of giving a vaccine to a new child, to numerous mother and father, sounds discomforting, that the very first thing a toddler goes to face once they’re born goes to be a vaccine throughout the first 24 hours.
For a kid over the age of 5, in the event that they develop hepatitis B an infection, in the event that they’re uncovered to it, they will have a 95 p.c likelihood of clearing that an infection, they usually’ll go on to develop lifelong immunity.
For kids between the ages of 1 and 5, they solely have a few 25 to 50 p.c likelihood of clearing the an infection. So, about 25 to 50 p.c of children will develop continual an infection, and a few quarter of them will go on to die from hepatitis B in the event that they’re between the ages of 1 and 5. So youngsters are extra weak to this virus and may’t clear the an infection.
However, if you’re speaking a few new child, an toddler, 90 p.c of newborns who grow to be contaminated – they usually’ll grow to be contaminated throughout supply – will go on to develop continual an infection. They will not be capable of clear the hepatitis B. And about 25 p.c of them will die from sequelae of that an infection both from liver illness, cirrhosis or from liver most cancers.
So we’ve got this distinctive alternative by giving this delivery dose and the next inoculations to nearly get rid of the prospect {that a} new child can contract hepatitis B and go on to develop continual an infection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: It is virtually 99 p.c efficient at stopping that continual an infection. And the chorus is…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And…
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: And one last level. The chorus is – oh, sorry, please.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, no. And this resolution now could be to attend two months earlier than giving that dose.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president of the US got here out and stated, this was excellent as a result of hep B is just transmitted sexually or via soiled needles.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure, look, that is the issue. That is merely not true.
The actual fact is, there is a chorus that, for those who simply check the mothers throughout – whereas they’re pregnant, you’ll be able to detect whether or not they have hepatitis B, and, if they’ve hepatitis B, you proceed to provide that delivery dose.
However the actuality is, many mothers do not get examined, although they intend to. Many occasions, these check outcomes aren’t checked. And the exams themselves have a false destructive price, that means they will say you do not have hepatitis B, when, in reality, you do, of about 2 p.c.
That won’t sound like loads, however that 2 p.c goes to translate into a minimum of 1,000 infants being born and getting contaminated with hepatitis B. There was one modeling estimate that estimated, within the first 12 months of this new steerage, there’s going to be 1,400 youngsters, infants contracting hepatitis B.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: And, once more, 25 p.c of them will die from that an infection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, we take a look at this as a result of there’s this broader scrutiny of vaccines proper now by the Trump administration.
And, on this board resolution, which the general public might hear into, it was publicly broadcast, the board was handpicked by RFK Jr., who’s a skeptic right here of vaccines. From those that voted towards the choice to delay, one in every of them who you heard on the prime of the present stated, the CDC is doing hurt.
One other stated: “No rational science has been offered, and the committee should settle for duty when hurt is brought about.”
These are fairly extraordinary statements. If the group making a choice that has such excessive penalties for essentially the most weak Individuals is not basing it on science, no rational science, what does that point out about what comes subsequent?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Properly, look, that is – the ACIP, by and enormous, apart from a handful of members, are anti-vax activists who have been put there to hold out a particular agenda.
And, look, the secretary, to his credit score, has been very sincere about what his intentions are right here. He is essentially the most distinguished anti-vaxxer within the nation previous to coming into this place, and he acknowledged that his aim is to get rid of childhood immunization or many of those childhood immunizations.
And I believe they will take a methodical strategy and slowly chip away at this. It is a huge unforced error, insofar as ACIP was a esteemed physique that numerous states tie their very own decision-making to. And what we’re seeing proper now could be, as a bunch, it is being degraded, and I do not assume it’ll ever be restored.
I do not assume you’ll be able to simply flip the change and restore this the place persons are going to instantly respect its choices once more. There’s about 600 state legal guidelines that have been tied to choices ACIP made. About 17 states have already handed new laws saying they are going to not respect the choices of ACIP.
The insurers got here out and stated they will tie their very own protection choices to the skilled our bodies, just like the American Academy of Pediatrics, and never ACIP.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: So, I believe, in time, ACIP goes to be absolutely degraded as a decision-making physique, and it’ll be extra symbolic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: There will probably be sure states that – that adhere to it, however it will likely be extra symbolic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you – this week, we noticed an enormous dump in biotech shares following these reviews that the FDA, which you used to run on the first a part of the Trump administration, is now going to require one research to clinch approval of vaccines.
You have been one of many former commissioners who put out this actually extraordinary editorial in “The New England Journal of Medication” arguing that the FDA and prime vaccine regulator Dr. Vinay Prasad are altering insurance policies in a means that is going to decelerate new and higher vaccines.
What particularly is the issue you see? As a result of this is not simply hep B. That is the vaccines of the long run you are saying simply will not be created.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Proper.
So, Vinay Prasad, who’s the pinnacle of the Biologics Middle, additionally oversees the vaccine division, he additionally has been appointed the pinnacle of biostatistics, the chief medical officer of the company and chief scientific officer – so he occupies numerous positions – put out a memo saying that they will cast off or transfer away from what they name immunobridging research.
These are research that permit you, for well-validated vaccines just like the flu vaccine, to have the ability to exhibit annually that the vaccine – the brand new vaccine that is formulated towards a circulating pressure can elicit antibodies which are efficient towards that specific pressure, and that may very well be the idea of approval, fairly than requiring new final result research yearly to show that the vaccine truly reduces the incidence of influenza.
For established vaccines, the place we all know that antibody manufacturing is an efficient correlate for immunity, this has been a longstanding follow. It is – we do it for flu vaccine. We do it in COVID definitely. We do it for issues like pneumococcal vaccine, the vaccine for pneumococcal illness, the place we take a look at serotypes, circulating bacterial serotypes.
This enables us to replace vaccines as these viral and bacterial strains change and because the composition of the strains change in time to supply safety for the autumn respiratory season. In the event that they transfer away from this, which is what he stated they plan to do, we’re simply not going to have the ability to replace vaccines every season, as we have executed traditionally, to accommodate regardless of the circulating pressure is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And 12 former FDA commissioners got here out saying they’re deeply involved about what is occurring.
That memo that made clear the adjustments which are taking place throughout the FDA from Dr. Prasad was obtained by CBS, and it claimed that profession FDA workers are making adjustments partially as a result of they discovered a minimum of 10 youngsters have died after and due to receiving the COVID vaccine, referred to it as a profound revelation, and stated – and requested, did it kill extra wholesome youngsters than it saved?
The administration to this point has not backed up data to again up these claims, however – however what questions do you may have for the FDA commissioner? As a result of they’re arguing they’re doing this to assist individuals.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure, look, effectively, initially, one factor would not movement from the subsequent.
So, the concept if, in reality, they discovered circumstances the place the COVID vaccine was linked to tragic deaths, it would not then observe that you just make these coverage adjustments. In truth, the coverage adjustments would not deal with what their considerations are associated to the COVID vaccine itself.
These are – each case must be fastidiously adjudicated. It is tragic to see any suspected case that may very well be linked to a vaccine. And these have been checked out beforehand by the FDA, and I do not consider that the brand new FDA had entry to the case stage information.
Evaluation of circumstances, particular person circumstances that get filed with the company the place there’s a demise in proximity to vaccination, and a few of these are filed by the producers themselves, are very subjective and require the nice will the individuals concerned in that.
And so I believe that they need to make that evaluation public…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: … so it may very well be scrutinized and other people can get consolation in it.
They’ve already backed away from the ten. There’s reporting from Endpoints that now…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: … they’re saying it is eight or 9. So, they’re already backing away from it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
And HHS stated they are going to ultimately make that information public. We’ll search for it when it comes out.
Dr. Gottlieb, thanks on your evaluation at this time.
We’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our Lesley Stahl spoke with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene about her relationship with President Trump for 60 Minutes.
(Start VT)
LESLEY STAHL: I’ll ask you about this virtually strong help he has amongst Republicans in Congress. Is there in that help worry? Does the help come about as a result of they’re afraid that they are going to get demise threats?
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-Georgia): I believe they’re terrified to step out of line and get a nasty TRUTH Social put up on them, sure.
LESLEY STAHL: And so they’re watching what occurred to you.
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: Sure.
LESLEY STAHL: Behind the scenes, do they discuss in another way?
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: Sure.
LESLEY STAHL: How?
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: Oh, it is – it could shock individuals.
LESLEY STAHL: Properly, let’s shock individuals.
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: OK.
I watched a lot of my colleagues go from making enjoyable of him, making enjoyable of how he talks, making enjoyable of me consistently for supporting him, to, when he received the first in 2024, all of them began, excuse my language, Lesley, kissing his ass and determined to placed on a MAGA hat for the primary time.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You possibly can see extra of Lesley’s interview tonight on 60 Minutes at 7:00 p.m. Jap.
We will probably be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us at this time. Thanks all for watching.
Till subsequent week, for Face the Nation, I am Margaret Brennan.
