On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Secretary of State Marco Rubio
- Sen. Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas
- Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut
- Sen. Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland
Click on right here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: The Trump administration levels a dramatic top-secret mission in Venezuela and captures its chief, dictator Nicolas Maduro. However what is the U.S. function going ahead?
We are going to discuss to Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
Nicolas Maduro is now in a Brooklyn jail, dealing with drug trafficking costs, after being captured by the Military’s elite U.S. Delta Power as a part of a large U.S. army operation early Saturday that reportedly killed a minimum of 40 Venezuelans.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of america): And it was an assault like folks haven’t seen since World Battle II. No nation on the planet may obtain what America achieved yesterday or, frankly, in only a brief time frame.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The mission was months within the planning, however executed in just below three hours. What’s subsequent will take for much longer, as questions in regards to the legality and justification of the strikes proceed, in addition to how and who will rule Venezuela going ahead.
(Start VT)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We will run the nation till such time as we will do a secure, correct and even handed transition.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Along with Secretary of State Rubio, we will even hear from Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Tom Cotton and the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes.
Plus, Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen will even be right here.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
Individuals awoke yesterday to the stunning information that the U.S. had staged a large air assault on the capital of Venezuela and captured Nicolas Maduro. At this time, we’ll discover questions on what it means for the U.S. and why it is such a seismic improvement.
We start right now with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who joins us this morning from Miami.
Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary.
MARCO RUBIO (U.S. Secretary of State): Good morning. Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump stated that america will run the nation and that Venezuela will likely be largely run by, he pointed to you and a number of the different Cupboard members when he spoke to the general public yesterday. He stated, the U.S. retains all army choices, together with boots on the bottom, till U.S. calls for have been absolutely met.
How do you intend to run the nation?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Properly, initially, I believe the vital factor to level out is that the important thing to what that regime depends on and – is their financial system fueled by oil.
And, proper now, it’s an oil business that’s backwards and actually wants loads of assist and work by way of – not solely that, nevertheless it would not assist the folks. Not one of the cash from the oil will get to the folks. It is all stolen by the folks which are on the highest there.
And in order that’s why we now have a quarantine. There is a quarantine proper now during which sanctioned oil shipments – if there is a boat, and that boat is beneath US sanctions, we go get a court docket order. We are going to seize it. That is still in place, and that is an incredible quantity of leverage that may proceed to be in place till we see adjustments that not simply additional the nationwide curiosity of america, which is primary, but in addition that result in a greater future for the folks of Venezuela.
And so that is the form of management the president is pointing to when he says that. We proceed with that quarantine, and we count on to see that there will likely be adjustments, not simply in the best way the oil business is run for the advantage of the folks, but in addition in order that they cease the drug trafficking, in order that we now not have these gang issues, in order that they kick the FARC and the ELN out, and that they now not cozy as much as Hezbollah and Iran in our personal hemisphere.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However what you might be speaking about is extra of a sanctions stress, not boots on the bottom. So simply, to be clear, there isn’t a plan for U.S. occupation of this nation of practically 30 million folks?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Properly, I believe, initially, the president all the time retains optionality on something and on all these issues. He definitely has the power and the suitable beneath the Structure of america to behave in opposition to imminent and pressing threats in opposition to the nation.
That stated, and all of that stated, as of proper now, I believe what you see as a power posture. It is one of many largest naval deployments in trendy historical past…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … definitely within the Western Hemisphere, and it’s able to stopping not simply drug boats, however stopping any of those sanctioned boats that come out and in, and actually paralyzing that portion of how the regime, you realize, generates income. So that may proceed to be in place.
What the president has stated, clearly, is, you realize, and I believe what he is pointing to is that this obsession folks have about boots and this or that, he – he doesn’t really feel like he’s going to publicly, you realize, rule out choices which are obtainable for america, regardless that that is not what you are seeing proper now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: What you are seeing proper now’s an oil quarantine that enables us to exert great leverage over what occurs subsequent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, he additionally stated the U.S. is able to stage a second and far bigger assault if we’d like to take action.
However I am curious, since you simply described the regime as nonetheless in place, primarily. I imply, I am curious why the Trump administration determined to go away it intact and solely arrest Nicolas Maduro and his spouse. the one that controls the police, the chief thug, Diosdado Cabello, he is the inside minister. He is been indicted by america. He was in that indictment the administration launched.
He is a narco-terrorist. There is a $25 million worth on his head. He is nonetheless in place. The protection minister, who has deep ties to Russia, $15 million worth on his head, he’s nonetheless in place. I am confused. Are they nonetheless needed by america? Why did not you arrest them in case you are taking out the narco-terrorist regime?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: You are confused? I do not know why that is complicated to you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They’re nonetheless in energy.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: I imply, it is quite simple. You are not going to go in and wrap up – you are going to – you are – however, sure, however you’ll be able to’t go in – – you are going to in and suck up 5 folks? They’re already complaining about this one operation.
Think about the howls we might have from all people else if we really needed to go and keep there 4 days to seize 4 different folks. We obtained the highest precedence. The primary particular person on the checklist was the man who claimed to be the president of the nation that he was not, and he was arrested, alongside together with his spouse, who can also be indicted. And that was a reasonably refined and, frankly, sophisticated operation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: It isn’t simple to land helicopters in the midst of the most important army base within the nation. The man lived on a army base. Land inside three minutes, kick down his door, seize him, put him in handcuffs, learn him his rights, put him in a helicopter and depart the nation with out dropping any American or any American property.
That is not a straightforward mission. And also you’re asking me, why did not we do this in 5 different locations on the similar time? I imply, that is absurd. I – I do assume this is among the most, you realize, daring, you realize, sophisticated, refined missions this nation has carried out in a really very long time.
Large credit score to the U.S. army personnel who did it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: It was unbelievable, and an incredible success.
And, right now, an indicted drug trafficker who was not the respectable president of Venezuela…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … who we do not acknowledge, the Biden administration did not acknowledge, 60-something nations do not acknowledge, the European Union would not acknowledge, and plenty of nations in Latin America do not acknowledge – he was a convicted – he was a indicted drug trafficker.
He was arrested. His spouse was arrested, additionally indicted.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. However the others who’re additionally indicted are nonetheless…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And they’re now dealing with justice within the American system of courts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The others who’re additionally indicted are nonetheless in place. In order that’s the purpose of my questioning there.
However you talked about not being the respectable president.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: So that you needed us to land in 5 different army bases?
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, I am asking why you selected that this was the restrict of the army operation.
However to your level that you just simply made that Maduro was not the respectable president…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Properly, as a result of he was the – he was the man was claiming to be the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. Properly, the opposition…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: He was the highest goal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
The opposition chief, Maria Corina Machado, and Edmundo Gonzalez received that 2024 election, by your personal account. They have been a number of the first folks you known as while you have been secretary of State. You stated Edmundo Gonzalez is the rightful president of Venezuela. Is that also the U.S. coverage? And in that case, are you engaged on a transition to have these elected leaders run the nation?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Properly, I believe a pair issues.
I’ve great admiration Maria Corina Machado. I’ve admiration for Edmundo. We have now all these views about what – the election that occurred the final time, and never solely us, however many different nations all over the world. There’s that.
And there is – after which – however there’s the mission we’re on proper now. We have now been very clear from the start, as a result of I nonetheless assume that lots of people analyze every thing that occurs in overseas coverage by means of the lens of what occurred from 2001 by means of 2015 or ’16. The entire, you realize, overseas coverage equipment thinks every thing is Libya, every thing is Iraq, every thing is Afghanistan.
This isn’t the Center East. And our mission right here could be very completely different. That is the Western Hemisphere. Inside the Western Hemisphere, we now have a rustic, probably a really wealthy nation, that has cozied itself up – beneath the management of this regime, has cozied as much as Iran, has cozied as much as Hezbollah has cozied – has allowed…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … narco-trafficking gangs to function with impunity from their very own territory, permits boats with medicine to site visitors from their territory. And we’re addressing that.
And, by the best way, eight, 9 million folks within the largest mass migration occasion in trendy historical past have left that nation since 2014…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. Proper, however that regime continues to be in place.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … additionally having an impression on us. That’s what we’re addressing now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did – while you spoke yesterday, when…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Properly, once more, that – however we’re not simply addressing the regime. We’re addressing the elements which are a risk to the nationwide curiosity of america.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
You spoke with Delcy Rodriguez, who’s now, in keeping with President Trump, sworn in because the president, because the chief of Venezuela. Did she promise you that she is expelling all these American adversaries from Venezuelan territory? What precisely did she conform to do when she spoke to you?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: We – we’re going to – our aims relating to how Venezuela impacts the nationwide curiosity of america haven’t modified, and we would like these addressed.
We wish drug trafficking to cease. We wish no extra gang members to come back our approach. We do not need to see the Iranian and, by the best way, Cuban presence previously. We wish the oil business in that nation to not go to the advantage of pirates and adversaries of america, however for the advantage of the folks.
We need to see all of that occur. We insist on seeing that occur.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did she promise that?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And we’re going to work to proceed to see that occur.
Properly, proper now, the United – we’re going to see what occurs transferring ahead. Let me simply say that. I am not clearly going to have these conversations within the media. These are delicate and complex issues that require mature statesmanship, and that is what we intend to do.
However our targets stay the identical. The distinction is that the one that was in cost, regardless that not legitimately, previously was somebody you possibly can not work with. We simply couldn’t work with him. He isn’t an individual that had ever saved any of the offers he made, broke each deal he ever made…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … made a idiot out of the Biden administration on the deal they made with him.
And we supplied him on a number of events a chance to take away himself…
MARGARET BRENNAN: However…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … from the scene in a optimistic approach. He selected not to take action. And now he is in New York, a resident of the Southern District.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However his quantity two is now operating the nation. His quantity two is somebody you’ll be able to work with? And also you – is that what you are implying right here? And did she inform you that she is going to transition to democracy and the girl who received the election, alongside along with her associate there, Maria Corina Machado?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: We’re going to make – we’re going to make our assessments of individuals. You are asking me to make an evaluation. We will make an evaluation on the idea of what they do, not what they are saying publicly within the interim, not what, you realize, some – what they’ve executed previously in lots of instances, however what they do transferring ahead.
So we will discover out. You are asking me how do – do I do know what choices persons are going to make? I do not. I do know this, that if they do not make the suitable choices, that america will retain a number of levers of leverage…
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … to make sure that our pursuits are protected.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And that features the oil quarantine that is in place, amongst different issues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, you…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And so we – however we’re going to choose – transferring ahead, we will choose every thing by what they do, and we will see what they do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, as a result of, yesterday, President Trump stated Maria Corina Machado would not have the assist or respect inside the nation. And, by your personal admission, she walloped Nicolas Maduro within the final election. So it does sound like a choice was made, however right now it…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: She wasn’t on the poll within the final election.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, however her – her get together was.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Edmundo was, appropriate, sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. So, is there an settlement to…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: It was an illegitimate election, and that is why he isn’t a respectable president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. However is there an settlement to transition to democracy? It seems like there’s not.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: I believe what the president identified is the apparent.
Properly, I believe what the purpose – however there must be somewhat realism right here, OK?A transition to democracy – they’ve had this regime, they’ve had this method of Chavismo in place for 15 or 16 years, and everybody’s asking why 24 hours after Nicolas Maduro was arrested there is not an election scheduled for tomorrow? That is absurd.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, no, I am asking what you talked about along with her.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: These items take time. There is a course of.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. And you might be…
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Properly, I am not going to have – I am not going to publicly get into particulars about any of these issues, apart from to inform you that our expectations stay the identical, and we’re going to choose whoever we’re interacting with transferring ahead by whether or not or not these circumstances are met.
We wish – in fact we need to see Venezuela transition to be a spot fully completely different than what it seems to be like right now. However, clearly, we do not have the expectation that is going to occur within the subsequent 15 hours. What we do have an expectation is that – that it transfer in that path.
We predict it is in our nationwide curiosity, and albeit, within the curiosity of individuals of Venezuela.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president used the phrase oil 20 instances in his press convention. You talked about these great oil property that Venezuela have – has.
However the president’s final envoy to Venezuela, Elliott Abrams, is publicly arguing that you realize higher than the coverage you are backing. He stated – quote – “Venezuelan plutocrats or U.S. oil executives appear to be coming to Mar-a-Lago and whispering about how simple life could be if we simply made a take care of the regime as soon as Maduro was gone.”
Is that what occurred right here?
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: No, that is not what occurred right here.
What occurred right here is that we arrested a narcotrafficker who’s now going to face trial in america for the crimes he is dedicated in opposition to our folks for 15 years. And the one that helped him, in fact, his spouse, who was colocated with him, so she was arrested as nicely. That is what occurred right here.
So far as oil, look, oil is vital, not simply to fueling economies everywhere in the world. It’s vital to Venezuela’s future. Their oil business is totally destroyed. It is destroyed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: All these oil fields that used to supply so much and wealth for his or her nation and their folks, these issues are decrepit. They’re bankrupt. They should be reinvested in. It is apparent.
You – they don’t have the aptitude to deliver up that business once more. They want funding from non-public firms, who’re solely going to take a position beneath sure ensures and circumstances. That has to go to the advantage of the Venezuelan folks. Proper now, all of that wealth is stolen.
It is stolen, and it goes into the arms of oligarchs all over the world and the oligarchs inside Venezuela. A handful of individuals profit from it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: The folks do not profit from it.
On prime of that, it is quite simple, OK? Within the twenty first Century, beneath the Trump administration…
(CROSSTALK)
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … we’re not going to have a rustic like Venezuela in our personal hemisphere within the sphere of management and the crossroads…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … for Hezbollah, for Iran and for each different malign affect within the nation – on the planet. That is simply not going to exist.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, we might like to hold speaking to you, however I am advised you might be out of time. I’ve to go away it there.
MARCO RUBIO: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Late yesterday, CBS Night Information anchor Tony Dokoupil completely with Secretary of Protection Pete Hegseth and requested what the president’s feedback in regards to the U.S. operating Venezuela meant and requested if the secretary was ready to have troops on the bottom there.
(Start VT)
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Protection Secretary): Properly, it means we set the phrases. President Trump units the phrases. And, in the end, he’ll resolve what the iterations are of that.
However it means the medicine cease flowing. It means the oil that was taken from us is returned in the end and that criminals should not despatched to america. It signifies that overseas nations do not have a lodgement inside our hemisphere.
So, in the end, we will management what occurs subsequent due to this courageous determination. President Trump has proven American management and he’ll be capable to dictate the place we go subsequent.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will likely be again in a single minute. Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Arkansas Republican Tom Cotton.
Good to have you ever right here. Senator.
SENATOR TOM COTTON (R-Arkansas): Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have got oversight of the intelligence group, which was deeply concerned on this operation to enter Venezuela militarily and extract Nicolas Maduro and his spouse.
Does the U.S. nonetheless assess that the regime in Venezuela is made up of narco-terrorists with ties to Iran, Russia, China and Cuba?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Properly, first off, let me commend not solely our army. As President Trump stated, this was a wonderful operation. Solely america army may have pulled it off, however they could not have pulled it off with the assist – with out the assist of the professionals within the intelligence group, particularly on the Central Intelligence Company.
And I am glad that we now have a director, John Ratcliffe, that has restored confidence within the CIA. And the president – the president has – I believe the president respects the CIA as a lot as he ever has. It is a fantastic day, not only for our army, for our CIA.
There is no query that the folks in Venezuela who’re nonetheless accountable for the equipment of the federal government are sanctioned and indicted officers, they usually’ve been in league with Nicolas Maduro till simply yesterday.
I believe President Trump desires to provide them an opportunity to show a brand new web page. Now, that is occurred previously. In the event you have a look at what’s occurred in Syria, as you realize, Ahmed al-Sharaa was an Islamic terrorist. He is now successfully a pro-American chief of Syria.
Moammar Gadhafi, the identical approach, had a lot blood on his arms. After the Iraq Battle, he turned over a brand new web page and got here out of the chilly. Now, the distinction in these two instances is,they made concrete concessions to america and our coverage targets and pursuits or they’d an extended historical past of turning the nook, like Ahmed al-Sharaa has.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Or it is a wholly new authorities.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: We have – we have – we have got – we have got to make it possible for the people who find themselves now accountable for the equipment of the Venezuelan authorities should not going to proceed Nicolas Maduro’s methods, and I believe that is what the president made clear yesterday.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However it sounds such as you assume that is really attainable for these people to chop all ties to the cartels?
(CROSSTALK)
SENATOR TOM COTTON: The president – the president desires to provide them an opportunity to show the web page in Venezuela and to assist America obtain our coverage targets there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How a lot time would you enable for that?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: I would not enable a lot, personally, however I do know these conversations are ongoing. As Secretary Rubio stated earlier on the present in your interview, we would like them to cease the drug and the weapons trafficking. We wish them to take the refugees again. We wish them to kick out the Iranians, the Cubans, the Islamic radicals like Hezbollah, and simply return to being a traditional nation that may assist construct stability, order and prosperity, not simply in Venezuela, however in our yard.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ought to a free and democratic Venezuela nonetheless be a purpose of america of America? And, in that case, do you hear from the administration a plan to transition to that?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: I believe it ought to…
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of Secretary Rubio wasn’t clear.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: I believe it ought to be a purpose. The opposition leaders, Ms. Machado, Mr. Gonzalez, have stated they assume there should be new elections.
I hope the federal government that is proper now in place in Venezuela will enable them to return, together with many different exiles who’ve left, political exiles who’ve left Venezuela, and that, in some time frame – in all probability isn’t going to be days or even weeks, perhaps a variety of months – which you could have new elections in Venezuela which are free and honest.
The Venezuelan folks have made clear now beneath Nicolas Maduro that they are not looking for a Chavista regime governing them. They need a say in their very own future. Venezuela has an extended historical past of steady, orderly authorities that was pleasant to america. We’re their primary buyer for oil, and we now have labored collectively to assist construct prosper – prosperity and stability in our personal yard.
I hope that we will do this once more with the long run authorities of Venezuela.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The CIA – or CBS is reporting that the CIA supply contained in the Venezuelan authorities helped the U.S. observe Maduro’s location main as much as this seize by the Military’s Delta Power.
The president stated yesterday the U.S. shouldn’t pay out that $50 million bounty that was on the pinnacle of Maduro. Does that imply that the CIA asset inside nonetheless works for us?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Properly, I’ve no touch upon CIA sources or strategies in Venezuela or elsewhere.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However they will not be receiving the $50 million reward?
SEN. TOM COTTON: I’ll merely say that the CIA’s superb work right here that has instilled such confidence within the president is a reminder not simply to Nicolas Maduro’s cronies in Venezuela, however different unhealthy guys all all over the world, that we now have superb insights into what they’re doing and what they’re as much as.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, when the president says we’ll run Venezuela, you might be assured that there are precise American property serving to to do this? Is that how I ought to interpret that?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: I am assured that we now have superb perception into Venezuela and different adversaries, overseas nations, and terrorist teams all over the world. That is why the president…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why was China there?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: That is why the president has such confidence in John Ratcliffe and the CIA.
Properly, China was making an attempt to offer assist to Venezuela throughout a U.S. stress marketing campaign. However the place have been they when Delta Power went in and obtained Nicolas Maduro? They have been nowhere to be discovered. And, frankly, that is the identical factor you noticed in June with China and Russia in Iran. We struck Iran. China and Russia did nothing. They stood idly by.
That is a reminder that america continues to be the world’s dominant superpower. Our buddies are very pleased right now. Our enemies are very frightened.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However the particular person operating the nation, Delcy Rodriguez, spoke yesterday with Russia’s prime diplomat. They’re involved with Russia. The protection minister has deep, deep ties to Russia.
Is there a U.S.-Russia settlement right here? As a result of there was hypothesis, primarily based on testimony to Congress again in 2019 by one in all Trump’s prime Russia advisers, Fiona Hill, that Russia has been floating a Venezuela-for-Ukraine deal right here.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, this was – no, this was…
MARGARET BRENNAN: … for a while. Is there any such deal?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, this was a U.S. operation that was designed to take away Nicolas Maduro as a result of he was a U.S.-indicted drug trafficker.
And you do not get immunity from American justice while you’re indicted by our courts simply since you’re the illegitimate communist dictator of one other nation. And…
MARGARET BRENNAN: However, to be clear, that is not what I am saying right here.
Is there an implication that, if Russia would not meddle in America’s yard, South America, america will do one thing much less in Ukraine…
SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, there’s…
MARGARET BRENNAN: … which Russia calls its yard?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, there is not any such implication. And, clearly, Russia would not want any form of pretext to take action. It is invaded Ukraine twice during the last 11 years.
There is no such implication right here in any respect. And this was an operation america performed on our personal, with none coordination or cooperation from different nations, to advance our nationwide curiosity, which is to cease the drug trafficking and cease Venezuela from cooperating with nations like Russia and China and Cuba and Iran.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. I need to ask you about authorities right here on the opposite aspect of the industrial break that we’re going to take. So, let me do this and are available again.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Positive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, stick with us, Senator Tom Cotton.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will likely be proper again with extra from Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Tom Cotton, plus the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Jim Himes, and Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We return now to our dialog with Senate Intelligence Chairman Tom Cotton.
Senator Cotton, the president stated Saturday {that a} second wave army assault had been deliberate, wasn’t essential, nevertheless it may nonetheless be carried out. What would necessitate it? And what would you assist?
SENATOR TOM COTTON (D-AR, Senate Intelligence Chairman): Properly, what I took the president to imply that what we simply did with Nicolas Maduro could possibly be executed once more to different Venezuelan leaders. A number of of them are indicted in U.S. courts, they’re sanctioned by america and Canada and European Union and different nations. And in the event that they proceed down the trail that Maduro took the nation of Venezuela, then we may conduct the identical form of operation as him. I took that because the president urging them to vary their methods or face the identical penalties.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And would you assist a stabilization power with U.S. boots on the bottom, because the president stated he would not rule out?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: We already had boots on the bottom, as Nicolas Maduro discovered the arduous approach. It is all the time the president’s choice to make use of the American army defend Americans and pursuits. And, clearly, we now have many Americans inside Venezuela and we now have many pursuits in (ph) property as nicely. I do not assume the president –
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you realize fight and stabilization forces are there.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: However I do not assume he – I do not assume he plans to do this. And I believe we have seen, too, the president – the president’s approach of conflict during the last – or over 5 years in workplace. In the event you have a look at 4 main operations, the killing of the ISIS chief in Syria, the drone strike in opposition to the Iranian terrorist mastermind in Iraq, the strike in opposition to Iran’s nuclear services, and now this seize of Nicolas Maduro. When our very important nationwide pursuits are implicated, the president takes daring, audacious, direct motion. He accomplishes the mission, after which the mission is over.
In some methods, that is the best mission of all of them. I imply as spectacular as our army was in Iran in June or in his first time period in Iraq and Syria in opposition to these terrorist masterminds, it is in all probability more durable to seize somebody and get out with no American lack of life than it’s to kill a goal or to explode nuclear services.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you might be drawing a definite there by way of authorities and use of the army. The Battle Powers Act requires the president to inform Congress of the explanation for committing troops inside 48 hours of their deployment and requires they be eliminated inside 60 to 90 days until Congress authorizes it. You OK with this open-ended dedication to maintain forces as they’re?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Properly, I believe he has eliminated troops. They have been solely there for a few hours to nab Nicholas Maduro.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are speaking in regards to the Delta Power operators who’re on the bottom.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However there’s a important army buildup throughout South America proper now.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are comfy with that? Does Congress want any authority?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: I strongly – no, I strongly assist it. I imply a part of – a part of that deployment was to gather intelligence, to conduct this operation, to quarantine the oil commerce that Venezuela was sending to Cuba or sending to our adversaries all over the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However it’s not mission achieved.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: I will not – we cannot have achieved our mission till Venezuela begins performing like a traditional nation. It stops the drug trafficking and human trafficking and kicks out Islamic radicals and Iranians and Cubans and helps america construct a extra steady, affluent western hemisphere. That is the last word purpose, and that is what President Trump laid out yesterday.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, final month the chief of workers to the president, Susie Wiles, advised “Vainness Honest” that attacking targets on Venezuela’s mainland, sovereign territory, would power Trump to get congressional approval. Quote, “if he have been to authorize some exercise on land, then it is conflict, then we would want Congress.”
You’re a co-equal department of presidency. Why would not the president want you or your authority or your session?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Properly, I seek the advice of routinely with the president and his senior advisers. And, in truth –
MARGARET BRENNAN: You, personally, positive.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Sure, like – nicely, because the chairman of the Intelligence
MARGARET BRENNAN: However Congress.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Because the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, they hold me apprised of what their plans are and what is going on on.
I imply I spoke, within the final 24 hours, not simply with the president, however together with his senior group. Each man that was on that stage with him yesterday, Marco Rubio, John Ratcliffe, Pete Hegseth, Dan Caine, Stephen Miller, the core architects of the president’s coverage right here, I’ve spoken with each single one in all them within the final 24 hours.
Congress has acted to offer the president with sources and authority that he wants to guard the very important pursuits of america. Whether or not it is taking out this drug trafficker, Nicolas Maduro, who had contributed to the loss of life of a whole bunch of Arkansans and a whole bunch of 1000’s of Individuals, or placing Iran’s nuclear services, he has the inherent authority, beneath our Structure, to guard these American nationwide pursuits. And because the chief legislation enforcement officer, to make it possible for indicted drug traffickers face justice, whether or not they’re indicted in Venezuela or indicted in america.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However by his personal admission, the DEA administrator stated that cocaine costs have gone up practically 45 p.c, drug traffickers have solely modified routes. Venezuela isn’t a fentanyl producer, not a cocaine producer. Do you actually assume that this has ended the drug drawback?
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Venezuela is exclusive in Latin America, although, as a result of the Maduro regime is itself in league with the drug trafficking cartels. It would not simply tolerate them or it would not simply fail to regulate its territory. It’s in league and income from drug-trafficking cartels. That is the excellence between Venezuela and different nations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Cotton, thanks to your time right now.
SENATOR TOM COTTON: Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes. He’s the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, and he joins us this morning from Greenwich.
Congressman Himes, you might be part of that Gang of Eight, which signifies that details about these secret operations is statutorily meant to be shared with you as a part of this very small group. Provided that and what you need to know, are you able to clearly clarify what america is doing?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES (D-CT, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE): Sure. By the best way, I used to be delighted to listen to that Tom Cotton, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, has been in common contact with the administration. I’ve had zero outreach. And no Democrat that I am conscious of has had any outreach in anyway. So, apparently we’re now in a world the place the authorized obligation to maintain the Congress knowledgeable solely applies to your get together, which is de facto one thing.
However, sure, no, look, I do know precisely the place we’re, Margaret. We’re within the euphoria interval of acknowledging throughout the board that Maduro was a foul man and that our army is completely unbelievable. That is precisely the euphoria we felt in 2002 when our army took down the Taliban in Afghanistan, in 2003 when our army took out Saddam Hussein, and in 2011 after we helped eliminated Muammar Gaddafi from energy in Libya. These have been very, very unhealthy folks. By the best way, a lot, a lot worse than Maduro in Venezuela, which was by no means a major (AUDIO GAP) nationwide safety risk to america.
However we’re in that euphoria section. And what we discovered the day after the euphoria section, that it is an terrible lot simpler to interrupt a rustic than it’s to really do what the president promised to do, which is to run it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: And so, once more, let’s let – let’s let my Republican colleagues get pleasure from their day of euphoria. However they’ll get up tomorrow morning realizing, my God, there isn’t a plan right here, any greater than there was in Afghanistan, Iraq, or in Libya.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, you heard the secretary of state say, nicely, this isn’t the Center East. There are conflicting statements from cupboard members. Hegseth advised CBS, you realize, the president of america will completely be in cost right here and leaned into the concept of army choices. President Trump stated there will likely be an choice of trainers on the bottom. Secretary Rubio, although, actually simply leaned into an oil quarantine right here.
What precisely is the purpose of leverage right here? When do you count on to get solutions? Do your Republican colleagues promise you that they’ll get a number of the solutions to the questions you’ve got?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: After all not, Margaret. I imply, look, you are seeing it on tv right now, proper? Two-thirds of my Republican (AUDIO GAP) get up each single morning and the one query they’ve is, what can I do to show my loyalty to the president right now?
And we see this as a result of the president has fully shifted who he was. I imply as I watched that information convention yesterday I assumed, oh my God, that is Dick Cheney and the neocons. Not solely are they taking out a – they’re doing a regime change in a rustic – by the best way, not a tier one risk to america however that they simply do not like. They’re warning the opposite dictators, that is Dick Cheney in 2002 saying, we’re taking down Saddam Hussein. And by the best way, Syria and Iran higher be careful.
And the fascinating factor about that and why it is actually arduous to reply the query of the place the hell they’ll go from right here is that the president received by promising MAGA and his personal people who this type of stuff was executed, that the neocons have been over. And right here we’re, that was Dick Cheney within the convention yesterday, you realize, deciding that america was going to, you realize, militarily change regimes and threaten different ones simply because we do not like them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, however then the secretary of state was speaking about working with the regime and dealing with Maduro’s quantity two, who’s now operating the place, and different indicted criminals in keeping with the Southern District of New York, who’re persevering with to run Venezuela. So, can you actually say that is regime change in the event that they’re working with the regime?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: As you identified, it isn’t (AUDIO GAP) proper? And also you (AUDIO GAP) to clarify any consistency right here. I imply as you identified (AUDIO GAP) was a really unhealthy man and indicted (AUDIO GAP) trafficker (AUDIO GAP). Couple of weeks in the past the (AUDIO GAP) pardoned that (AUDIO GAP) indicted drug trafficker (AUDIO GAP) these guys get a pardon (AUDIO GAP) get the complete (AUDIO GAP). I (AUDIO GAP) that. There is no such thing as a (AUDIO GAP) – perhaps (AUDIO GAP) believes that (AUDIO GAP) work with the – however, I imply, look, once more, return to (AUDIO GAP) and it’s liberated –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Himes, I am sorry to chop you off right here. I am having a horrible time audio-wise. I’ll take a break as a result of hopefully our technicians can repair it in these two minutes. So, please stick with us.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to “FACE THE NATION.”
I simply need to apologize to our viewers there. Congressman Himes didn’t have a foul case of the hiccups. We have now technical issues. That is why he was getting interrupted there. It is known as Reside View. That is the know-how getting used. And it wasn’t working. So, apologies for chopping that brief.
You are again with me now in studio. And we will discuss to Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, who’s right here in particular person.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Good to be with you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And won’t have these issues, we hope.
However let’s choose up on that exact same level that we have been discussing with Congressman Himes there. He says that no info was being shared with the highest individuals who have oversight, like himself. What leverage do Democrats should power the administration to deal with Congress as a coequal department of presidency?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Properly, Margaret, it is arduous when the Republicans in Congress are completely awol, proper? Once they need to give Donald Trump primarily a clean examine as a result of they proceed to have majorities, in fact, within the Home and the Senate. Clearly in 2026, if Democrats regain management of both home, we can have the gavel. However within the meantime, we have to go on to the American folks and simply make it very clear that on this case, it is my view that the Trump administration’s been mendacity to the American folks. This has by no means been about stopping medicine from coming to america. All of us assist stopping medicine. This from the start has been about eliminating Maduro, grabbing Venezuela’s oil for American oil firms and Trump’s billionaire buddies. That is what that is about. That is why Donald Trump spent a lot time yesterday speaking about oil.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Twenty instances the phrase “oil” was utilized in these remarks. The protection secretary spoke to my colleague, Tony Dokoupil, and used the phrase “oil” about six instances. There may be loads of deal with these pure sources.
However, arguably, is not that what China, Russia, Iran, and others are additionally making an attempt to do, which is to extract their very own profit from this nation? You understand, what’s the counter to that time that the administration would argue?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Properly, the counter is, you do not invade a rustic to seize their pure sources, proper?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you – do you think about this an invasion regardless that – though it is unclear as a result of Senator Cotton each stated there have been boots on the bottom and that there aren’t.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Properly, let’s put it this fashion – nicely, they took – they’d boots on the bottom, proper? They took – they took out the chief. And now they’re demanding entry to Venezuela’s oil. That is what this has been about. I imply Donald Trump, you realize, claimed that he’d been in opposition to the conflict in Iraq from the start. That wasn’t true. However what we do know is he stated, nicely, having gone into Iraq, we should always have gotten their oil.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: That is what drives Donald Trump. And our service women and men carried out magnificently. However I believe it is outrageous that the president of america places American lives in danger so massive American oil firms and his billionaire buddies can revenue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However, arguably, there are additionally vital minerals there. There are all types of pure sources in Venezuela that the drug cartels even have been getting within the enterprise of, that the Chinese language have been there making an attempt to get. How do you do each issues, each nook the market on the issues which are of important nationwide safety curiosity, these form of minerals, and nonetheless really keep the rules that you just’re arguing ought to be upheld?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Properly, america is working, and beneath the earlier administration additionally labored to safe, you realize, vital mineral provide chains. Sadly, in lots of of those areas, the Trump administration really has surrendered to China. I imply for those who have a look at, for instance, clear vitality and all these points, and batteries, we now have primarily surrendered that market to China.
What you do not do, Margaret, is you do not put American lives in danger to go in and seize oil sources to learn the billionaires that assist Donald Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Chevron, an American oil firm, has been working in Venezuela all through. They usually advised CBS yesterday that they proceed to work there. My understanding is there are a whole bunch of Individuals working and residing in Venezuela nonetheless. Reportedly there are a minimum of 4 who had been detained by the regime. The regime that is still in energy right here.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You might be on Senate Overseas Relations. What have you learnt in regards to the detained Individuals? What can you discover out about how they’re doing?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I’ve not gotten an replace from the administration on these detained Individuals. Months in the past I did work to safe the discharge of an American, a Marylander who we now have again in Baltimore, Maryland.
I believe the administration is these detentions which are at present ongoing in Venezuela and figuring out what number of of them are wrongful detentions, what number of that they do not assume are wrongful detentions. However definitely my view is, we should always work to deliver again each American who’s wrongfully detained abroad. I believe that is going to complicate that effort, what the Trump administration simply did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of they may designate Venezuela as a state sponsor of hostage taking? Is that the place you are going with that?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: No. My view is that the administration ought to designate as wrongfully detained any Individuals that the –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: You understand Venezuelan authorities has seized wrongfully. After which there are methods to proceed to place stress on. Now, usually that stress could be by means of sanctions. Right here the administration clearly has, you realize, taken army motion. As you have been stating, we’re nonetheless left with the regime.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I imply the vp’s a part of the regime. Donald Trump says he is operating Venezuela. This isn’t going to finish nicely. Iraq didn’t finish nicely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Different efforts to attempt to do away with unhealthy folks, and we’re glad to do away with Maduro. I would prefer to do away with leaders in different nations, however you do not do it by means of power. That simply would not work out nicely in our expertise.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. And even on that time although, Secretary of State Rubio challenged me in saying, oh, we could not seize all these folks directly, however the lawyer common – former Legal professional Basic Invoice Barr was on Fox Information this morning, the person who put collectively that first indictment of Maduro, and he stated, “the intention was to scrub the place out of this legal group so there’s going to should be follow-up operations.”
To be clear, do you oppose all snatch and seize operations of indicted folks?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Properly, I do not assume we ought to be placing American women and men in danger in a scenario like this. I imply, I would have to take a look at each scenario. However once more, the motivation right here is about grabbing Venezuela’s oil for American oil firms. You already see of us on Wall Avenue lining up. So, let’s simply be actual as to what’s actually behind this operation. I imply Donald Trump stated he was going to deal with america. We have now folks’s well being care prices going by means of the roof as a result of they refuse to increase the Reasonably priced Care tax credit. In the meantime, he bails out Argentina and desires to run Venezuela for the advantage of American oil firms.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will have to speak about all of the stuff you simply raised as we – in a future episode of “FACE THE NATION.” However clearly on the query of conflict powers, does the president have the authorized authority to do what he is doing?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: No, he doesn’t. I imply that is –
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are on the Appropriations Committee. You have obtained energy. What are you able to do about it?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Properly, I – I labored with Senator Merkley already to supply a decision in america Senate to chop off any U.S. taxpayer {dollars} to fund an assault in opposition to Venezuela. Republicans blocked us from doing it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: So, sure, we’ll proceed to push. In actual fact, I am positive we will have a vote on a conflict powers decision in all probability as early as this week, if not subsequent. Final time we supplied these, Margaret, Republicans voted no. All however one or two. Senator Paul voted with us. Perhaps one different. However for probably the most half, Republicans are pleased to provide Donald Trump a clean examine and give up their constitutional tasks to Donald Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Van Hollen, much more to speak to you about. Thanks very a lot for becoming a member of us right here right now.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We have now to go away it there.
We flip now again to our dialog with Connecticut Democratic Congressman Jim Himes, who I believe may be heard now.
Congressman, I am glad we obtained the hyperlink again up.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: OK.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For these viewers who misplaced you there, are you able to clarify to us – the administration is arguing that what they did is authorized and that the snatch and seize operation of taking an indicted legal, Nicolas Maduro, to america, by means of army power, has precedent, they usually level again to what occurred within the late ’80s with Noriega in Panama. What’s your problem to that?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Sure. Properly, first it is clearly unlawful beneath worldwide legislation, proper? No – full cease. U.N. constitution. No query there.
Now, you could not care about worldwide legislation. However for those who do not care about worldwide legislation, bear in mind you are going to be making an attraction to worldwide legislation to attempt to get restitution for the seizure of Chevron’s oil stuff. So, perhaps you need to rethink how a lot disdain you present for worldwide legislation.
Clearly not authorized beneath the Structure as a result of although presidents of each events have argued in opposition to this, the Structure is de facto fairly clear that the representatives of the folks get to be consulted and in the end approve army exercise. That has not occurred right here in any respect. And so, once more, there’s nothing authorized about this.
And extra to the purpose, once more, beneath the worldwide legislation level, consider what Russia and China simply discovered. Russia and China simply discovered that each one it’s good to do if you wish to go into Estonia is to say that the chief of Estonia is a foul particular person. You do not even must make a very good case.
Look, there isn’t a nationwide safety skilled saying that Venezuela was a mortal risk to america three weeks in the past. So, what China and Russia simply discovered is that the beacon of liberty and rule of legislation on the planet has now green-lighted snatch and seize operations in Estonia, in Taiwan, wherever Xi and Putin resolve they need to go subsequent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I take your level on the precedent there. Do you assume that China or Russia would have the power to hold out that form of lightning operation america did?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, no. However that does not imply – nicely, China, sure. China, sure. China very quickly. And, you realize, their chief has stated, we’ll develop this functionality. We all know that their intent is to do exactly this in Taiwan. Russia’s a extra sophisticated case. It is – you realize, Russia loses 10,000 folks to get, you realize, three acres of land in japanese Ukraine. However that might not be true 5 years from now.
And, by the best way, again to the Noriega case, since you do ask query there. Panama is a horrible precedent. Why do I say that? As a result of after we went to Panama, the Panamanian Congress had declared conflict on america of America, proper? That they had killed a United States Marine and wounded two others, and the Congress had been consulted. The Congress, within the Noriega mission, had licensed regime change. So, it is a horrible precedent that the administration is utilizing to say that that is authorized.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, as we perceive it, as a result of we appeared this up, Noriega claimed head of state immunity, and the court docket stated that that immunity was meant to guard official state features and personal profiting off the drug commerce. Mainly the courts dominated on his actions as a pacesetter and never on the legality of the snatch and seize operation itself.
So, we will proceed to trace all of this. Thanks, Congressman Himes. Thanks, Senator Van Hollen.
We will likely be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us right now. And there was loads of breaking information. Thanks for watching. You’ll want to tune in Monday night time and each weekday night time for the “CBS EVENING NEWS” as Tony Dokoupil begins a brand new era right here at CBS Information.
Till subsequent week. For “FACE THE NATION,” I am Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
