On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Sen. Mark Kelly, Democrat of Arizona
- Rep. Jason Crow, Democrat of Colorado
- Anthony Salvanto, CBS Information director of elections and surveys
- Sen. Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky
- Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Ambassador to the U.S.
Click on right here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: Divisions between Congress and the White Home develop on essential conflicts, each overseas and home.
Breaking in a single day, Secretary of State Rubio and different administration officers are in Geneva assembly with Ukrainian officers and different allies concerning the administration’s 28-point plan to finish the warfare in Ukraine.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of america): We’re attempting to get it ended. Someway, now we have to get it ended.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: However does the proposal favor Russia over Ukraine? And if President Zelenskyy would not settle for it?
(Start VT)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Then he can proceed to combat his little coronary heart out.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Again house, a harmful confrontation has erupted…
(Start VT)
SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-Arizona): This administration is pitting our uniform army…
SENATOR ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-Michigan): … and intelligence neighborhood professionals…
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW (D-Colorado): … towards Americans.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … with Democrats who served urging members of the army to facet with the Structure and the regulation in terms of following instructions from the president.
(Start VT)
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Our legal guidelines are clear. You’ll be able to refuse unlawful orders.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the president responded, saying these members within the video had been traitors, displaying seditious conduct and extra.
We’ll cowl it with two Democrats who’re dealing with threats of political violence due to their efforts, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly and Colorado Democratic Congressman Jason Crow.
Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul and the brand new Ukrainian ambassador to the U.S., Olga Stefanishyna, may even be right here.
That, plus some powerful information for the president in terms of how People assume he is dealing with the financial system.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
As People put together to kick off the vacation season with Thanksgiving, adopted by Black Friday, our new ballot out right this moment underscores that their focus continues to be very a lot on the financial system and excessive costs, with greater than three-quarters of People who’re judging Trump on the financial system saying he isn’t spending sufficient time targeted on the financial system and inflation.
Total, his approval ranking has dropped to its lowest this yr. Solely 40 p.c of People now approve of Mr. Trump’s job efficiency.
The Trump administration is dealing with different challenges that they are coping with proper now, what their technique is for additional army motion in Venezuela, negotiating an finish to the warfare on Ukraine, and now disturbing rhetoric that is led to a rise in threats towards some lawmakers, with a few of that rhetoric coming from the president’s social media feed.
And we’re joined right here in studio by Colorado Democratic Congressman Jason Crow, who is among the six lawmakers who launched a recorded video earlier final week urging service members to defy unlawful and illegal orders.
Good morning.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW (D-Colorado): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it was that video that prompted a few of this rhetoric from the president.
I need to communicate, although, about what’s taking place proper now. I perceive there was a bomb risk towards your workplace in Aurora, Colorado, that your loved ones has acquired painful dying threats, even homicide threats. Right here is a few of what your workplace launched.
(Start VT)
CALLER #1: … murdered.
CALLER #2: You ain’t an American (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You are a communist.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: These, I consider, are telephone calls that had been made to your workplace. Are any of those threats credible?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: We do not know, Margaret.
We’ll take these critically. But it surely’s very disturbing stuff. When you’ve gotten the president of america threatening to execute and to hold and to arrest utilizing this rhetoric, individuals hearken to it. We’ve got seen earlier than a sample of inciteful, harmful rhetoric being utilized by the president after which individuals performing on that.
I lived by an expertise January 6, a really comparable dynamic. He is been doing this for years, saying issues, and in complete disregard for the end result and what would possibly occur when he throws these things out on the planet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the president has made these social media posts, however then he then kind of walked a few of these threats again, saying he wasn’t threatening dying. He was saying sedition was usually prior to now punishable by dying.
After which, earlier than you appeared right here right this moment on social media, he put out: “The traitors that advised the army to disobey my orders ought to be in jail proper now, not roaming the pretend information networks” – I assume that is us – “attempting to clarify what they stated was OK. It wasn’t and by no means will probably be. It was sedition on the highest degree. It is a main crime. There might be no different interpretation of what they stated.”
That is a quote from what he placed on social media.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Mm-hmm.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you’ve gotten any concept what all these threats really imply? As a result of he talked about in an interview army courts and referenced the DOJ as properly.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: No, we do not know what this implies. He would not know what this implies, as a result of he is irresponsible. He is performing harmful. He is performing in an inciteful method.
There’s two issues happening right here, Margaret. One is the irresponsible and harmful rhetoric by the president of america, threatening to have members of Congress executed who he disagrees with.
But it surely’s additionally so telling that, when members of Congress merely remind service members of the Structure and their obligation to obey the regulation, which isn’t simply our proper, however is our obligation to do, that he can not deal with that and he resorts the threats of violence and threats of arrest and execution.
That tells you all the pieces you’ll want to learn about Donald Trump’s respect for the Structure and the rule of regulation and truly underscores our level.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, let’s get to the content material of what you had in that video you launched, as a result of there are additionally 15 Home Republicans who’re additionally veterans who launched a video, together with a retired three-star Marine Corps common, Jack Bergman.
Take a hearken to this.
(Start VT)
REPRESENTATIVE JACK BERGMAN (R-Michigan): Troops, pay attention up. Any service member who refuses a lawful order is topic to court-martial for violating the Uniform Code of Navy Justice.
MAN #1: We examine what’s lawful and what’s not lawful. And the Democrats’ stunt insinuating that there are unlawful or unconstitutional orders, it is downright harmful.
MAN #2: It’s corrosive. It’s meant to weaken our nation and weaken the army.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you reply to those allegations out of your colleagues, fellow veterans, that what you’ve gotten put out there’s weakening and corrosive to the army?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Properly, these, sadly, are a few of Trump’s core supporters which are rallying behind the president.
They usually know higher. They know precisely the distinction between lawful versus illegal. We had been very clear within the video that what we’re speaking about is illegal orders. You might have the president’s spokesperson happening – right into a press convention this previous week and saying that we known as for individuals to disobey lawful orders.
They’re merely mendacity as a result of the reality is unacceptable to them. It is unacceptable. We wished to begin a dialog, and we did, concerning the harmful rhetoric this president is utilizing and the threats that he is made to make use of our army in an illegal method, as a result of…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Particularly what?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Properly, ship troops into Chicago, ship troops into polling stations, kill terrorists’ households, arrest and execute…
MARGARET BRENNAN: He hasn’t carried out these issues.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … arrest and execute members of Congress, shoot peaceable protesters in Lafayette Sq.. Want I’m going on?
He has a historical past of doing this. And if we wait till the second that he provides a manifestly illegal order to a younger soldier, then now we have failed them. We’ve got to begin that dialog now and get individuals fascinated with the excellence, which is strictly what we did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. So these had been feedback, not orders he gave, and social media posts and the like. However I hear you that phrases matter.
However the usual for troops, as I perceive it, is that they need to seek the advice of with the workers choose advocate, the workers authorized counsel relating to orders if they’ve authorized questions. There’s a course of in place.
Are you telling the rank-and-file troops to go outdoors of that apply?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: No, completely not.
Let me use an instance of how this performs out and what this seems like downrange, as we are saying within the army. I did three…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, as a result of it sounds such as you’re placing a number of stress on these individuals downrange.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: I did three fight deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.
And earlier than every of these fight deployments, I sat my troopers down, my Paratroopers and my Rangers, and we talked concerning the regulation of warfare. We talked about lawful versus illegal orders, concerning the safety of civilians in battle, proper, as a result of you’ll be able to’t wait till a soldier is within the second and has to make a split-second determination about what to do to coach them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: It’s important to speak about it. It’s important to practice them earlier than, which was why we put this video out, to get individuals fascinated with their obligation and all the threats and all the issues the president have stated could be manifestly illegal and could be the varieties of orders that individuals should not carry by, as a result of they’d be homicide if individuals really did the issues that Donald Trump threatened.
So…
MARGARET BRENNAN: However we do not know but that the deployment of troops on U.S. soil, should you had been referring to the Nationwide Guard deployments in main U.S. cities, is definitely illegal. That is tied up within the courts proper now.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: We’re speaking concerning the determination of troops on the bottom out in operations, proper, their interface with civilians, taking pictures civilians, going to polling stations, which is a violation of U.S. prison regulation, issues which are man…
MARGARET BRENNAN: However these items have not occurred. You are afraid they may?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … issues which are manifestly illegal that our troops is likely to be put within the place to hold out as a result of that has what – that’s what the president has repeatedly threatened to do.
So, once more, it’s extremely telling that merely restating their obligation to the Structure and the regulation…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … which we do continually with our service members, will get one of these response from the president.
I’m not going to be threatened and intimidated by the president of america. I’ve a job to do, and that’s to make sure individuals comply with the regulation. I took an oath to this nation. It’s a lifetime oath that I intend to hold out. And I’m not going to be intimidated and threatened by the president and cease reminding individuals to comply with the regulation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No.
However I’ve talked to attorneys about this, and army attorneys about this, and there’s some frustration that lawmakers have not been in Washington doing their job by way of oversight. There aren’t hearings on Venezuela. There aren’t hearings on these deployments of the Nationwide Guard.
And but there are public movies calling on troops at low ranks to make selections unto themselves right here about what’s lawful or illegal or recall their coaching or discuss to their workers choose advocate about this.
I imply, this – why not first publicly name for a listening to earlier than you name on the troops?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Properly, to begin with, two separate points.
So, on the listening to, completely proper. We’re pushing the Trump administration to really give us briefings, give us hearings. Mike Johnson, Speaker Johnson, shut Congress down twice, twice, to keep away from votes on releasing the Epstein information.
They’ve…
MARGARET BRENNAN: He would argue Democrats shut down Congress to – for the well being care argument.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Properly, it’s extremely clear – it’s extremely clear what they did.
I nonetheless got here to D.C. anyhow and pushed for oversight and pushed for briefings. So I’ve been in Congress for seven years nearly, and I’ve by no means seen the dearth of briefings and oversight and skill to entry data. I’ve been utterly shut out of the DOD and the CIA at this level, as a member of the Intelligence Committee and the Armed Providers Committee.
So, this administration…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is not a lot of this due to the Republican management in Congress that is not demanding these issues?
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: This – precisely proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So…
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Congress has the facility to do that. In order that they’re proper. We have to be doing this. Democrats try to do it. We’re being stonewalled and blocked by the Republicans, blocked by the administration, as a result of they really don’t desire us to do the oversight, as a result of they’re afraid of what we’ll be taught.
And that’s completely different, Margaret, than what we’re speaking about, operational selections, selections to go to warfare within the Caribbean, Venezuela, that are strictly inside the purview of Congress. And Congress must be making these selections and debating it, versus…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, that – the White Home says that was not an act of warfare; it is overseas coverage and the president has a number of leeway underneath the Structure. That is their argument.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Properly, now we have been listening to this for 25 years, which is why Iraq and Afghanistan went on for so long as it did. We spent $3 trillion, misplaced 7,000 service members’ lives, and people ended poorly.
Congress has to make that call. Congress must be accountable for it. And Congress must be debating this earlier than the American individuals, going to the American individuals, and telling them why they need to ship their little kids into battle and they need to spend tons of of billions of {dollars} of their hard-earned cash.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: This president would not need that course of to occur.
And as someone that did three fight excursions in these wars…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: … I’ve had sufficient of Congress being reduce out of it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, you will notice in a few of our upcoming polling information that the American public would really like extra details about the plans for Venezuela, which you had been referencing there.
Congressman Crow, thanks.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will probably be again in a single minute. Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who joins us from Tucson, Arizona.
Welcome again to Face the Nation, Senator.
SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-Arizona): Thanks for having me on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to decide up the place we left off on this matter of political violence.
I do know your loved ones has suffered due to it, very, very straight. After which, this previous week, the president known as that video you participated in sedition. You heard me learn what he stated once more this morning, sedition on the highest degree and a significant crime.
Have you ever – do you’ve gotten credible threats? How involved are you about your safety at this level?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Properly, Margaret, what the president stated may be very severe.
I did not assume he would step over the – over that line, calling for the execution of members of Congress. And his phrases carry large weight, extra so than anyone else within the nation, and he ought to pay attention to that.
And due to what he says, there’s now an – elevated threats towards us. I am not going to get into particulars on my private safety. However, because the husband of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, we – I perceive what political violence is. The president ought to as properly.
Identical to Gabby, someone tried to assassinate him, and will – he ought to perceive that his phrases have – , might have severe, severe penalties.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I bear in mind simply weeks in the past listening to from the president and different Republicans about the necessity to dial again the rhetoric after the tragic taking pictures of Charlie Kirk.
Relating to your…
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Sure, what occurred to that? I imply, that was two months in the past.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: The place are they now? We have heard little or no, mainly crickets, from Republicans in america Congress about what the president has stated about hanging members of Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I – that is what I wished to ask you. Why aren’t we listening to out of your Republican colleagues?
And, by way of your safety, I perceive there was a request so that you can get a lift in Capitol Hill safety help. Are Republican members on board with that?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I do not know. I’ve heard them say, , little or no about this.
I feel, , the president tries to intimidate them. He tries to intimidate Congress. He seems at authorities accountability as a nuisance. And I feel it is actually essential for individuals to know, Margaret, that the message he despatched a pair days in the past was, he declared that loyalty to the Structure is now punishable by dying.
These are severe phrases coming from the president of america. He is attempting to intimidate us.
However, Margaret, I am not going to be intimidated. You realize, you simply heard Jason Crow. He isn’t going to be intimidated both. We each served our nation. We swore an oath. All we stated is, we reiterated what mainly is the rule of regulation…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: … that members of the army mustn’t, can not comply with unlawful orders.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, on that time, by way of lawful and illegal orders, it will get difficult for rank and file to know.
I perceive and different networks have reported that the senior choose advocate down at SOUTHCOM raised severe doubts concerning the legality of the strikes on these alleged drug boats…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … however was contradicted by attorneys on the govt department.
Have you ever spoken to the SOUTHCOM commander? Do you – are you listening to that there are illegal orders being given?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Properly, we’re listening to the identical factor that you’re.
The administration hasn’t shared a lot data with us. I’ve learn the authorized evaluation. It was similar to the briefs. They’re tying themselves in knots attempting to clarify why what they’re doing almost about these drug boats is authorized.
And it is – it is questionable, at greatest. Our – one in all our greatest allies, the UK, lately stopped sharing intelligence with us within the Caribbean as a result of they query whether or not that is authorized or not. We have been asking for extra briefings from the proper individuals. We’ve got not acquired them.
However the data that you just simply shared with me is the – is the general public data.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I haven’t got way more past that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, and the French authorities has stated it is a violation of worldwide regulation and the regulation of the ocean. That is what our allies are saying about these strikes which are taking place there.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Sure.
However, Margaret, getting again to the junior – the junior people…
MARGARET BRENNAN: However is that why you made this video?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: No. No.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: The explanation why we made this video is a pair issues.
This president, from earlier than he was in workplace as he was a candidate to the time he was in workplace in his first administration, has stated issues that trigger us nice concern.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: There’s a development right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: When he was operating for president the primary time, he talked about he wished the army – he stated he would – he would – the army ought to be killing the households of terrorists.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And when he was advised that that was unlawful – this was on a debate stage – he mainly stated that the army is not going to refuse to comply with my orders…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: … that they may perform his orders no matter what they had been.
Taking pictures protesters within the legs is one thing he introduced up in his first administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And, fortunately, Mark Esper, his secretary of protection…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: … and Mark Milley, , mainly advised him, you can’t try this. In the event that they weren’t there, consider what presumably might have occurred.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, I want…
SENATOR MARK KELLY: So, we’re involved…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. Oh, I am sorry.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Go forward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I simply need to ensure that I get to you on Ukraine, as a result of there’s a lot taking place.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: OK.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I do know you are such an enormous supporter of Ukraine.
There are three distinguished U.S. senators who’ve gone on the file now, together with Republican Mike Rounds, who stated yesterday Secretary of State Rubio advised them he was unaware of a risk to chop off U.S. help to Ukraine if they do not settle for this proposed plan that is on the desk.
Right here is how Senator Rounds described it.
(Start VT)
SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS (R-South Dakota): What he advised us was that this was not the American proposal. This was a proposal which was acquired by somebody who has recognized and so they consider to be representing Russia on this proposal. It was given to Mr. Witkoff.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: So – so, since these remarks had been made and backed up by a number of senators, I’ve acquired telephone calls from senior White Home officers, from – from senior U.S. officers saying, no, no, no, that is by no means what – what Secretary Rubio stated.
What model of occasions can we consider right here by way of what America is placing ahead?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Margaret, they have to clear this up.
You might have Rubio speaking to my Senate colleagues saying one factor, the spokesperson for the State Division saying one other. Your conversations with the White Home contradict what the secretary of state and, by the best way, the nationwide safety adviser, similar man, has stated about this.
They have – they have to determine this out and get the message out and clarify to the American individuals what is going on on.
I’ll say this, that that – that plan, that is Putin’s plan. That could be a excellent deal for Russia. It’s a horrible deal for Ukraine, for our allies and even for our personal nationwide safety. If Putin will get the possibility with that deal to, , rearm…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: … rebuild his financial system and achieve territory, by the best way, that is what he wished.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly…
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Then, the Baltics, Poland, Romania, all these different nations down the road are at risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the U.S. retains emphasizing it’s a working doc, so it could be in a special state than what was leaked by an anti-Zelenskyy politician.
However Ukraine’s ambassador did inform us there is a separate safety assure doc. What – what must be in there that will really shield Ukraine? Does that have to go for a vote earlier than the U.S. Congress?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Properly, it is determined by what it’s, however Congress ought to be concerned. If there’s a treaty with Ukraine on their very own safety, it is one thing that we’d need to have some say in and finally…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: … we’d vote on in america Senate, we’d ship to the president.
However they have to be speaking to us about this…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: … on either side of the aisle.
Typically, the trail they are going on lately is to only share data with the Republicans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And even my Republican colleagues do not appear to love that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: However that is what this White Home is – is doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And it is as a result of they do not need congressional oversight in – in any method…
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: … whether or not it is on Ukraine, Venezuela, or any – any challenge.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
All proper, we have got to depart it there, Senator, however, to your level, plenty of very fiery statements from Republican senators prior to now few hours.
We’ll be proper again with much more Face the Nation. Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The variety of detainees held by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has reached a file excessive of practically 66,000, in response to information launched Friday by DHS.
Earlier this month, our Camilo Montoya-Galvez reported that roughly half of these in custody don’t have any prison fees or convictions on their file, however are being held solely due to alleged civil violations of immigration regulation. And now the federal government has confirmed it; 48 p.c of present detainees lack prison fees or convictions.
Since President Trump took workplace, the variety of noncriminal detainees arrested by ICE has elevated by over 2000 p.c. Our new CBS ballot reveals that 54 p.c of People consider the federal government is stopping and detaining extra individuals than mandatory.
An identical quantity, 55 p.c, now disapprove of President Trump’s dealing with of immigration coverage. Regardless of rising public concern, the administration has lately expanded enforcement operations to Charlotte and different cities, giving no signal their so-called mass deportation marketing campaign is ending any time quickly.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again with much more Face the Nation.
Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to “FACE THE NATION.”
For extra from our newest CBS Information ballot we’re now joined by our govt director of elections and surveys, Anthony Salvanto.
Anthony, it is all the time nice to have you ever right here.
It is the time of yr the place People exit and so they spend an entire lot of cash as a result of they’re preparing for the vacations. So, how are individuals feeling concerning the financial system?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: The story of the financial system is a narrative about costs, because it has been for years. And other people say costs are nonetheless excessive. Not taking place. In truth, many say they’re nonetheless going up. And it is a reminder that at the same time as we speak about inflation and the macro inflation fee of change numbers, that is individuals strolling down the aisle in a grocery retailer and saying, that is costly or that is not. And easy as that’s what you decide up in a ballot.
Now, the opposite a part of that is about expectations, which is, firstly of this yr individuals advised us that they thought the financial system was going to get higher, that costs had been going to come back down. So, you see this kind of realization right here that it’s not. That is quantity two.
However the different a part of that is, because it comes again to these numbers you talked about for the president, and his rankings for all of this. To start with, what individuals say they’re listening to from the White Home would not match with what they’re feeling.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Fascinating.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: They are saying the president is making the inflation challenge sound higher than it truly is.
Now, look, a few of that’s simply going to be any president attempting to be optimistic, proper? Possibly that is Trump being Trump, placing one thing optimistic on the market. However, a the identical time, you have a look at individuals who say they choose the president, firstly, on how he handles the financial system, and the massive majority of them say his administration just isn’t spending sufficient time on it. So, it isn’t simply concerning the rhetoric, it is also concerning the motion.
Now, the opposite a part of that is, once you have a look at the decline in his approval rankings on dealing with the financial system, it is type of gradual and regular down so far, which comes again to these expectations, which is that individuals kind of evaluating what they anticipated to what they’re seeing now. And that is an enormous purpose why his dealing with for it has slowly gone down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Pocketbook politics all the time so essential.
The opposite large coverage for this president has been immigration. And his supporters have caught by him on that. How is he fairing?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Very a lot so. Nonetheless very sturdy help from the Republican base. That is proper. And comparatively higher than he does on the financial system.
However talking of the financial system, there’s an financial part to this too, which is, individuals say that the deportation program is extra prone to be hurting the financial system proper now, making it weaker, than making it stronger. So, you go somewhat –
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of it is tougher to search out staff?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Properly, you go somewhat bit into that, proper? And other people say – those who say that they really feel prefer it’s impacting the world round them, and those who say they assume that’s for the more serious, say their sense of factor is that persons are staying house extra because of this. Not essentially going out. And so one of many stuff you see there’s the potential or the notion of an financial influence out of the deportation program, though, sure, it nonetheless maintains sturdy help from Republicans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Completely different matter however associated. The White Home is getting ready for some type of army motion towards Venezuela, and the president has linked this to each drug coverage and immigration coverage due to these Venezuelan refugees who’ve been coming into this nation in recent times.
We’ve got lawmakers saying, not sufficient data is being shared. Does the general public assume they know what’s taking place?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: The general public is echoing precisely that sentiment, proper? You get this large majority that claims the administration has not but defined what the U.S. place is, what’s going on there. However then, on the opposite facet of that, that it must. And even throughout the board, Republicans, Democrats, unbiased, all saying that it must.
Now, the rationale then that you just’d see, as we see, this large quantity that say they’d oppose army motion in Venezuela is that that connection hasn’t been made, proper? So, individuals do not feel like they know what is going on on. So that you see that opposition, a minimum of typically.
The opposite half is, you examine that to comparatively bigger approval for the concept of, or the assaults on, boats and ships that the administration says are carrying medication. That will get somewhat greater approval. However on the similar time, you continue to see individuals saying, the administration ought to present proof that there are medication on that boat. So, it comes again to that concept of individuals eager to know extra.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Convey the general public together with you within the selections you make.
You even have been wanting on the president’s base, MAGA. How are they feeling and the way does this concept of intervention, some type of motion abroad, settle with them? As a result of the president had promised America first focus at house.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Proper now, with regard to Venezuela, you see the MAGA Republicans, so determine as MAGA Republicans, much more supportive than non-MAGA Republicans on the concept. Why is that? Primary, they do see it as tied to medication. They’re extra prone to say, if we had been to go in there, that it would cease the circulate of medicine into the U.S. So, they’re listening to what the president is arguing, primary.
Quantity two, for context, now we have usually seen MAGA Republicans extra differential to the president throughout a spread of points, together with overseas coverage ones. So, we are saying on the Iran strikes, in addition to others. And what I feel what we see is, after they say America first, what they’re saying is, look out for U.S. pursuits, primary. Not essentially be fully isolationist. However that deference to the president, among the many MAGA base, has been one thing constant all through this. It’s nonetheless very a lot about him and his connection to that MAGA base.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Anthony Salvanto, nice insights. Thanks.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Republican Senator Rand Paul, who joins us from Bowling Inexperienced, Kentucky.
Welcome again to this system, Senator.
Rather a lot to get to.
SENATOR RAND PAUL (R-KY): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However on this concern about political violence, or offended rhetoric. I do know the president himself has survived these two makes an attempt on his life. You’ve got talked to us about these dangers to him. After which we had this killing of Charlie Kirk just some months in the past. Is the president holding himself to the identical requirements that he’s asking of others in terms of dialing again harmful rhetoric?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Properly, , everyone is aware of that the president is legendary for his unfiltered social media. However should you take at face worth the concept calling your opponents traitors after which particularly saying that it warrants the dying penalty, is reckless, inappropriate, irresponsible. There are a variety of different methods to explain it, however it’s not one thing that’s serving to the nation heal wounds. I feel it stirs issues up. And, actually, I feel we will do higher.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, on the homeland safety entrance, I perceive you might be chair of that committee and so you’ve gotten some perception into a few of these home threats. It is not simply these Democratic lawmakers. We noticed out within the state of Indiana, 4 Republican state senators had been focused by swatting threats amid President Trump’s pubic stress on them to redistrict their state. Only a few weeks in the past we did see one of many convicted January sixth rioters, who was then pardoned by President Trump, arrested for threatening to kill Minority Chief Hakeem Jeffries. I imply are we on the level right here the place it isn’t simply unfiltered social media posts, however really harmful rhetoric?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Properly, , I have been on the receiving facet of this. Even my father, who’s been retired for a while, has been on the receiving finish of swatting. Police are known as, says there’s an emergency within the house. And the objective is to, , have somebody draw a gun and be killed because the police are available in supposedly to rescue somebody who’s probably not in want of being rescued. So, I feel either side have been doing this. And I feel the language on treason and traitors, each to Republicans and Democrats, is, as I stated, reckless, inappropriate, irresponsible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you assume that – so one of many different developments we have seen simply over the weekend is that Consultant Marjorie Taylor Greene, Republican from Georgia, only a staunch supporter for thus lengthy of the president, has stated she goes to step away as a result of she’s paid such a public value for a few of her positions. Do you assume there’s room in your celebration for arguing with President Trump?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I feel it is essential that now we have unbiased voices. So, I am unhappy to see her voice go away, or probably go away. I feel that she introduced up one thing within the final week or in order that was essential, what’s the Republican plan for well being care? So, I’ve engaged the president on this and I am placing ahead my very own plan. However in my plan what it permits for is individuals to purchase their insurance coverage by a collective. Mainly to by their insurance coverage by Costco or Sam’s Membership or Amazon. And mine is the one plan on the market that will really drive costs down. However that is what an unbiased voice will assist in our nation, an unbiased voice inside the Republican caucus, to not see issues all the time contained in the field, however to think about some out of the field options. So, I feel unbiased voices are essential within the Republican Occasion.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you, due to your place on homeland safety, you might have some perception into the drug cartels. You might be additionally on Senate International Relations. And it’s tomorrow that the Trump administration formally will designate the cartel de la Soles as a overseas terrorist group. That is the cartel the Trump administration says is linked to Venezuelan chief Nicolas Maduro.
Secretary Hegseth says it provides the administration new instruments. Nothing’s on or off the desk he says militarily. Legally, what modifications tomorrow? What turns into attainable?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I feel by doing this they’re pretending as if we’re at warfare. They’re pretending as in the event that they’ve gotten some imprimatur to do what they need. When you’ve gotten warfare, the foundations of engagement are lessened. So, for instance, we usually do not shoot boats that we suspect of being drug sellers. In truth, if the Coast Guard tomorrow began taking pictures all vessels which are off of Miami or off of San Diego, about one in 4 of the vessels that they usually board would not have medication. So, it really could be illegal if the Coast Guard began blowing up boats. However for some purpose they are saying, oh, we’re at warfare off the coast of Venezuela. And so it is a completely different rule of engagement. It is one in all warfare.
However, , Senator Kaine and I introduced this up. And we stated, if it is warfare, let’s declare it as warfare. Let’s have this dialogue. Is it warfare or not? And the administration refused that. They need to have it each methods. They need to say, oh, we will simply say these persons are terrorists, they’re narco terrorists, so we will blow them up. But it surely’s extraordinary that when a few of them survive, they pluck them out of the water, they do not prosecute them for medication, they do not gather medication, they do not inform us in the event that they had been armed or not. They only ship them again to their nation, more often than not not being Venezuela. They’ve despatched one again to Colombia and one again to Ecuador. However no person’s making any pretense of even interviewing them to search out out who’s promoting you the medication. Possibly we might discover out who the kingpins are in the event that they’re concerned within the drug commerce. Not a phrase.
And I have been given zero, not one briefing as a result of I am skeptical of what they’re doing. They do not transient me or the overall Senate in any respect. Just a few hand-select individuals might have gotten a briefing, however I’ve not been invited to any briefings on Venezuela.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, that is pretty uncommon given your homeland safety function and that the premise for a few of this motion has to do with each immigration and drug coverage in response to the president.
I do know the DEA administrator lately spoke to our Nicole Sganga and advised her that they’ve seen between a 30 to 45 p.c enhance in cocaine costs per kilogram as a result of these DOD boat strikes, and a shift in the direction of land routes for supply of these medication.
In different phrases, there’s nonetheless demand for the medication, and the cartels are simply discovering completely different routes to ship them. Have you ever seen any proof that the president’s actions to this point are successful a drug warfare?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: You realize, I feel we ought to be attempting to work on the demand facet, treating it as a well being drawback, as an dependancy drawback in our nation, and attempting to reduce the demand. And that’s a part of the general answer.
The warfare on medication, although, to seize all of the individuals promoting medication, the value goes up and extra persons are interested in it.
You realize, a few the individuals which were recognized as being on these boats are merely down on their luck, individuals with no prospects who had been supplied $500 to get on a ship and race throughout the ocean. And so, there all the time will probably be these individuals. There’s in all probability a limitless variety of these individuals in South America.
There’s been some profit after we’ve cooperated with nations and with governments, however that is not what that is. And I worry that this isn’t going to do something for the drug commerce, however it’s actually going towards the rule of regulation in the best way by which we work together with individuals on the excessive seas. And it has no precedent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’ve seen you quoted as saying there are individuals within the administration who’ve wished to go to warfare in Venezuela for a while. Who’re you speaking about?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I feel it is clear that Senator Rubio, as a senator, was very a lot an advocate of regime change. This was at odds, actually, with President Trump. And so, when he was picked, lots of people who had been supportive of President Trump had been, oh my goodness, they’re choosing somebody way more hawkish and way more desirous to be concerned and to intervene in different nations. And so individuals fearful.
After which the primary yr or so persons are like, oh, properly, Rubio’s doing a great job on overseas help and so they’ve reduce on all the abuse of those NGOs around the globe. And I feel that individuals supporting the president have been very supportive of the secretary of state. However I feel as soon as there’s an invasion of Venezuela, or in the event that they determine to re-up the subsidies and the items to Ukraine, I feel you will see a splintering and a fracturing of the motion that has supported the president as a result of I feel lots of people, together with myself, had been interested in the president due to his reticence to get us concerned in overseas warfare.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, to this point, they are saying nothing on or off the desk. No specifics. We’ll proceed to trace all of the reporting on that.
Senator Rand Paul, thanks to your time right this moment.
We’ll be again in a second.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now concerning the Ukrainian ambassador to america, Olga Stefanishyna.
Welcome to “FACE THE NATION.”
OLGA STEFANISHYNA (Ukrainian Ambassador to america): Welcome, Margaret. Whats up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I perceive it is a very intense week to your nation for plenty of causes, together with the diplomacy that is taking place proper now as we sit right here in Geneva. Your president stated Ukraine face as alternative between shedding its dignity or shedding a key ally, america. What has been agreed to at this level?
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Properly, as it’s identified, the session are nonetheless ongoing between Ukraine and the American officers. That is Secretary of State Rubio and likewise Secretary of Military Driscoll, who arrived somewhat bit earlier. This session are nonetheless proceed on the premise of the proposal of the American facet on 28-point peace plan, as it has been known as right here. And European allies are additionally current in Geneva lately to work hand in hand with Ukraine within the litigation, but additionally with the American delegation to debate the proposals on our – and on their facet. So, consultations are nonetheless ongoing. However there was plenty of factors, which have been already broadly mentioned in public.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you conscious of Russia making any concessions at this level?
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Properly, it’s not seen this fashion from the proposal, which is on the desk. In truth – in truth, not one of the factors are literally associated to forcing something on the Russian facet. In fact, it is acknowledged that it’s – it’s aggression. There may be plenty of factors associated to return of hostages and a – and a prisoners of warfare, of a humanitarian nation. However that is undoubtedly not about justice. This plan just isn’t concerning the justice. And the reality of this warfare and the aggression. It is about, , ending the warfare and stopping the army engagement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is unfair to Ukraine, you are saying?
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Properly, once more, I feel this ought to be divided. This plan just isn’t about justice, . And this plan is about plenty of actions proposed as a part of estimated settlement between Ukraine and probably Russian Federation. Ukraine is in intensive engagement in a really constructive method with the American facet. And underneath the umbrella of U.S. management, the discussions are ongoing and we consider that the honest piece just isn’t the phrases, however that is one thing that ought to be placed on paper. So, sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you ever been advised that america will reduce off army and intelligence sharing if President Zelenskyy would not comply with this plan by Thursday?
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: I feel it’s very unfair to American colleagues and companions to name (ph) this or that assertion, which had been wait (ph) – the place had been carried out in course of, , varied conferences and a telephone calls. There was fairly a number of, . We had a primary senior army go to to Ukraine by Secretary of Military Driscoll since we gained the independence in 1991. And I had assembly with him as properly right here in Washington. And his function is extraordinarily – extraordinarily clear to us. We additionally had an engagement between president and the vice chairman on a the telephone name. There was like a number of discussions. A few of them had been extra emotional. Some had been much less emotional. However right here we’re. We’re sitting collectively and on the lookout for an answer to finish the warfare. And Russia just isn’t a part of the method formally.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, “The Wall Road Journal” is reporting that along with these 28 factors there is a separate doc that has to do with safety ensures. I’ve additionally been advised that there is a separate doc with safety ensures.
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: “The Journal” is reporting that it is ten years of help however it would not commit the U.S. to supply direct army help. What ensures would you like from america?
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Properly, there’s a separate doc known as the framework. Like, of the safety assurances from america. So, this isn’t the settlement. This isn’t the treaty. This isn’t the formal or detailed structure for what safety ensures is – that’s the – like paperwork specifying the intention that U.S. authorities is dedicated to offering safety assurances, that are like one thing just like the Article 5 of the Washington NATO treaty.
So, it is nonetheless very completely different and it specifies – it has been within the public entry. So, it has been publicly leaked as properly. So, that U.S. will get up along with their allies in case of the Russian aggression from the territory of the Russian Federation.
I feel we should always not overlook that the Russian aggression begin, in truth, from Bella Russian territory. So, they’re like a number of nuances and this must be mentioned.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Oh, I see. So, you are saying you desire a clear safety assure that claims should you’re invaded or should you’re attacked, together with by surrounding nations which are Russian proxies, you need America to say that it’ll come to Ukraine for that (ph)?
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Sure, completely. We are able to actually talk about safety assurances. However now we have like the actual doc in entrance of our eyes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: And what’s actually essential that we had. We’re very difficult companion for U.S. as a result of we additionally had a number of completely different unhappy expertise like Budapest memorandum, the place we gave up nuclear weapons that we had.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. Sure.
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: One other of a special conditions the place now we have discovered our classes, and we face the aggression for 3 and a half years and we discovered.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’ve to ask you, U.S. and European officers inform me that the trajectory on the battlefield for Ukraine just isn’t good, significantly in that key industrial metropolis of Pokrovsk.
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Pokrovsk, sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Pokrovsk. And that Russia will seemingly take management of this, and that that is kind of a gateway to the jap half, the Donbas. How do you reply to the argument that Ukraine is shedding on the battlefield and that you’ll want to negotiate now?
OLGA STEFANISHYNA: Properly, Ukraine is among the largest European nations. And on an everyday, inside one week there are greater than 1,000 fight (ph) engagements taking place on all of the entrance line. And the Russia has tried to current that it is solely occur in Pokrovsk, proper? So, it is a victorious narrative Russia is utilizing as a techniques of pressuring or altering the fact additionally right here in america. That is why, I imply, Pokrovsk is an important spot on the entrance line however undoubtedly not the one one.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador, thanks to your time this morning.
We’ll be proper again.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us right this moment. Thanks all for watching. Till subsequent week. For “FACE THE NATION” I am Margaret Brennan.
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