The next is the transcript of an interview with White Home Nationwide Financial Council Director Kevin Hassett that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Sept. 7, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning, and welcome to Face The Nation. We start this morning with the Director of the Nationwide Financial Council, Kevin Hassett. Good morning and thanks for being right here.
KEVIN HASSETT: Good morning. It is nice to be right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In particular person.
KEVIN HASSETT: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s loads to get to with you, however I wish to begin on what simply occurred in a single day. Russia has launched a really important assault on Ukraine and in Kyiv. They really even hit a Ukrainian authorities constructing. Does the U.S. condemn the assault? And what are you ready for now by way of triggering these sanctions on Russia?
KEVIN HASSETT: Effectively, as , I am not one of many international coverage advisors of the President, however on the Nationwide Financial Council we’re accountable for ensuring that sanctions get enforced and that folks which are serving to Russia with their conflict towards Ukraine, as for instance India has been doing, excuse me, by shopping for Russian oil, that we’re prepared to reply to them economically. And , final evening’s information could be very disappointing and I am certain that there is going to be numerous discuss as we speak and tomorrow concerning the stage of sanctions and the timing of sanctions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The timing of further sanctions on Russia.
KEVIN HASSETT: Right, sure. I imply it is as much as the president in the long run. However sure, it is a very disappointing set of affairs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: On the U.S. economic system, there have been 22,000 jobs added final month. The previous two months of knowledge have been additionally revised down. You’ve got stated in interviews this week it suggests there’s much less momentum right here than you thought. Has job creation stalled and will the Federal Reserve be involved concerning the jobs image?
KEVIN HASSETT: Proper, effectively, effectively to begin with, the fascinating factor concerning the jobs numbers, proper, is that they’d the largest revisions in 50 years over the summer season, and we got here in with 22,000 in August. However in case you have a look at what they stated in 23 and 24, they’ve two methods of estimating the roles. There’s one thing known as the payroll survey, the place they ask the employers how many individuals did you rent? Then they’ve one thing known as the family survey, the place they name up folks, they are saying do you, do you’ve gotten a job?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
KEVIN HASSETT: And over these two years, the payroll numbers stated that we created 4 and a half million jobs and the family survey stated about 2 million fewer, about two and a half million jobs. And they need to have the identical reply. And so for August, for instance, the payroll survey stated 22,000 and the family survey stated 288,000. And so I feel that what is going on on is that these quaint methods of surveying, like I’m wondering in case you’ve ever gotten a survey within the mail and crammed it out and mailed it again in, possibly you’ve gotten, however I feel that that is the best way they’re attempting to do it. And the rationale we’re getting these large revisions and these numbers that do not make sense is admittedly that we have to modernize the best way we do the labor knowledge. However in case you have a look at the non-labor knowledge, , second quarter GDP was revised as much as 3.3%. The Atlanta Fed’s GDP estimate for the third quarter proper now’s 3% and so industrial manufacturing is at an all time excessive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you consider all that knowledge? All these fashions are functioning.
KEVIN HASSETT: No, the purpose is when there’s dissonance in knowledge that it’s a must to kind of watch the way it all works out.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Received it.
KEVIN HASSETT: And the factor that I am most suspicious of proper now, by way of knowledge high quality, is the job quantity. Partly as a result of there are different methods to do it. There’s this firm known as Homebase that does it. Their August quantity is 150. However once more, even take into consideration this, if we ask households what number of jobs have they got? It is plus 288,000 in August. If we ask the employers, it is 22,000. Then that is that turns into a puzzle for economists, like what’s mistaken with the info? And we type of know what’s mistaken with the info. What’s mistaken with the info is folks aren’t filling out the varieties and sending within the surveys.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Final month, the president fired the top of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, suggesting there was political bias. Not simply what you are speaking about, which is a really technical difficulty on how knowledge is collected and crunched. Did you repair the political bias or —
KEVIN HASSETT: — Effectively, there, there are patterns of the info that seem like political bias, however they could possibly be unintended. And that is why we have to get a brand new set of eyes in there to ensure that issues are extra clear, that we modernize the surveys and we make them in order that extra folks belief them. However take into consideration this, on the Federal Reserve —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — So you do not belief these numbers?
KEVIN HASSETT: I feel the BLS numbers want to essentially be improved. They should be modernized. And I gave a chat on the BLS subsequent to Alan Greenspan we had a couple of years in the past the place I talked concerning the necessity of modernizing them, and so I nonetheless agree with that place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However pattern line sensible, after we hear from corporations like Caterpillar, Deere, Ford, Procter & Gamble, that their prices are going up because of tariffs. That does not recommend there’s going to be strong hiring in these sectors, proper? When an organization is taking up one thing that might damage their productiveness or profitability I ought to say?
KEVIN HASSETT: Effectively we have seen, inflation has come down fairly a bit. It was within the excessive threes when President Trump took workplace. The typical over the six months is 1.9. And, , even the Fed proper now clearly agrees that inflation has been underneath management in case you consider futures markets as a result of the federal funds futures markets are actually saying the Fed goes to chop rates of interest thrice this yr —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Anticipated to (inaudible) —
KEVIN HASSETT: — And so the Fed, they’re anticipated to. And so, subsequently, , the Fed is predicted to really feel prefer it’s comfy with the place inflation is true now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However my level being that does not forecast from these corporations a state of affairs through which they might essentially be hiring. Have you ever been in a position to calculate what the immigration crackdown has carried out to employment?
KEVIN HASSETT: Effectively, yeah, there are, there are a few issues that we might have a look at. To begin with, the non-public sector employment is up by about half 1,000,000 this yr and authorities staff, authorities employment is down by about 100,000. There’s one other factor is that a lot of the jobs which were created within the U.S. are for native born staff, and so they’ve really, there’s really been a discount in labor provide for non-native born staff.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you show that?
KEVIN HASSETT: Excuse me?
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you show that?
KEVIN HASSETT: Oh, we now have a, we now have a survey the place they really ask it. Now, possibly we do not belief the surveys, proper?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
KEVIN HASSETT: And there may be really a factor —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — And if the companies are hiring undocumented, or have a sample of it, are you prosecuting these corporations?
KEVIN HASSETT: There’s technicalities that when somebody’s launched into the nation then, within the earlier administration, then they might typically get a quantity that will permit them to work legally till they went to court docket. And so there have been, for certain, folks that have been undocumented —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — However going after the employers? —
KEVIN HASSETT: — who have been having the ability to work. However the different factor which you could see within the knowledge, as a result of we get the unemployment insurance coverage claims by like county, that about 80% of the claims for unemployment over the previous few months have come from blue states. And so there are locations like Portland and Chicago the place individuals are fleeing the cities and also you’re seeing that within the numbers too.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you do not plan to prosecute corporations who had this sample, you are speaking about, of hiring folks within the nation illegally?
KEVIN HASSETT: I do not work for the Justice Division, however I do see the sample of native born versus non-native born employment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, we’re additionally seeing in that knowledge, you say you do not belief essentially, that it is manufacturing. That is commerce associated. That that’s the place the shortage of hiring is occurring. These are the areas that the President had promised there can be new jobs. When do these new jobs in these sectors come?
KEVIN HASSETT: Proper, let’s give it some thought once more although that by way of the best way that the info are a bit of irritating for everybody proper now that industrial manufacturing is at an all time excessive, GDP is booming, productiveness was up 3.8% within the final quarter, and it appears like manufacturing jobs are down. And so how is it that industrial manufacturing is at an all time excessive whereas manufacturing employment is down? It is one thing that we’re trying ahead to seeing what occurs within the revisions. The revisions have been, final yr – there is a benchmark revision subsequent week – final yr, the revision was greater than 1,000,000 during the last yr. For this reason we’d like new and higher knowledge.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, we’ll wait to see if these jobs are created. I wish to ask you concerning the Fed. As a result of the president, you have been standing subsequent to him within the Oval Workplace, stated he may mainly make you some of the highly effective males on this planet as a result of he is contemplating you to turn out to be the subsequent chairman of the Federal Reserve. Our CBS polling we simply did reveals that 70% of Individuals need the Federal Reserve to make choices independently from President Trump. However there is a massive partisan distinction right here. 59% of Republicans say the Fed needs to be guided by what Trump needs. 41% needs to be unbiased of Trump. Which Republican camp do you fall into?
KEVIN HASSETT: Oh, if I have been in that survey then I’d say 100% that financial coverage, Federal Reserve financial coverage, must be totally unbiased of political affect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Together with from President Trump?
KEVIN HASSETT: Together with from President Trump. The very fact is that we have checked out nations which have allowed the leaders to take over the central banks, and what tends to occur is that it is a recipe for inflation and distress for shoppers. And so central financial institution independence is one thing that, as you noticed, there was a listening to this week about that, that Democrats and Republicans and the White Home all agreed about. Now the query is, has the present central financial institution been as unbiased as we want, as clear we’d as we want? And I feel that there is some dispute about that, which we might go into if you would like.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, Secretary Bessent went into that in an article within the Wall Avenue Journal this previous week. —
KEVIN HASSETT: — He did. —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — He talked concerning the central financial institution’s independence being underneath menace because of mission creep. There needs to be an unbiased, non partisan evaluate of the whole Fed, its position in regulation, financial coverage and analysis. What’s your plan to overtake the Fed?
KEVIN HASSETT: Effectively, I haven’t got a plan to overtake the Fed proper now. I am simply pleased to do my job —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — You need to have been serious about it. —
KEVIN HASSETT: — Look, I have been the President’s one among his high financial advisers for 9 years. We speak about every little thing from golf to adorning the Oval Workplace to financial coverage, however proper now what I am centered on is doing my job as Director of Nationwide Financial Council each day.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you’d endorse what Secretary Bessent wrote in that article totally —
KEVIN HASSETT: — Sure I agree with this text, sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you’d be ready to implement that imaginative and prescient for the Federal Reserve if you’re chair?
KEVIN HASSETT: It is a hypothetical that we’ll see.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, it actually appears from one of many political appointees, the Cupboard member, to be a imaginative and prescient for the way forward for the Fed that the Trump administration would love.
KEVIN HASSETT: I agree together with his imaginative and prescient, however I stay up for the President deciding who’s going to be the Federal Reserve Chair and I feel that he and Secretary Bessent will do this ably. There are numerous nice candidates.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is going to you do if the Supreme Courtroom does rule that the President’s tariff coverage, or not less than these underneath the IEPPA, the Worldwide Emergency Financial Powers Act, should not authorized?
KEVIN HASSETT: We actually do not anticipate the Supreme Courtroom to try this and I feel that we’re on fairly excessive floor and so it is a most unlikely state of affairs. However the reality is that there are different authorized authorities that one might use to get the identical consequence. 232s, 301s, numbers that we might go into in case you like —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Different methods to implement tariffs. —
KEVIN HASSETT: — Nevertheless it may be like, yeah, too deep a dive for the present on a Sunday. However, however sure, there are different issues that might occur ought to it go that means.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Alright. Kevin Hassett, thanks for coming on this Sunday morning.
KEVIN HASSETT: Thanks, it is nice to be right here.
