The next is the transcript of an interview with NATO Secretary Normal Mark Rutte that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Aug. 10, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to NATO Secretary Normal, Mark Rutte, who joins us from The Hague within the Netherlands. Welcome again to Face The Nation.
NATO SECRETARY GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Margaret, it is good to be again on the present. Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning. Nicely, Mr. Secretary Normal, huge image right here; is Russia’s Vladimir Putin nonetheless a direct risk to the Western alliance, or is he displaying some indicators of dropping his aggression?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: He’s nonetheless the primary risk to the Western alliance, there is no doubt. And I feel it is extremely good that President Trump will take a look at him, and we’ll see how far he can get on Friday, beginning this course of. He mainly broke the impasse, President Trump, in February, beginning the dialogue with Putin. I feel that was essential. We had a terrific NATO Summit beneath his management, committing to five% protection spending, so that there’s a clear sign to our fundamental risk, which is Russia, that we’re severe. After which he opened the floodgates, three weeks in the past, of American deadly weapons to be delivered into Ukraine, coordinated by NATO and, in fact, the secondary sanctions. He began them with placing them on India, which is without doubt one of the largest consumers of Russian oil and gasoline.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, that’s definitely the groundwork being laid. The priority is, in fact, as you recognize, amongst some critics, that on this convention room in Alaska, we will see a 1938 second. The place, in an try to right away halt a warfare, the groundwork is laid for a good greater battle due to concessions which are made. Are you comfy with Ukraine being excluded from these negotiations on Friday?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: What’s going to occur on Friday is testing Putin by President Trump. And I commend him for the truth that he organized this assembly. I feel it’s important. And, clearly, in terms of peace talks, the cease-fire and what occurs after that on territories, on safety ensures for Ukraine, Ukraine should be, and can be, concerned. However on Friday, you will need to see how severe Putin is. And the one one who can do that’s President Trump. So, it is actually essential {that a} assembly takes place. It is not going to be the ultimate say on this. There is not going to be the ultimate deal on this. After all, Ukraine should be concerned in Europe, however you will need to begin the following section of this course of, placing strain on the Russians precisely as President Trump has been doing during the last six months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have been on these calls with President Trump, and I do know that he briefed you on what Envoy Witkoff mentioned with Vladimir Putin this week. Are you able to inform us, is Russia nonetheless demanding that Ukraine drop its bid for NATO membership?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: Nicely, clearly, I can not go into all the small print, that will be unusual. However let me guarantee you the next, that we’re all on the identical web page; the People, the Europeans and Ukraine, that in terms of the geo-strategic place of Ukraine sooner or later, in terms of no matter is the dimensions of the Ukrainian army in terms of NATO’s posture on the japanese flank in international locations like Latvia and Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Poland, that Putin has completely no say on any of those points.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, you have stated up to now there should be robust safety ensures for Ukraine. Who’s going to supply that if it is not NATO?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: Clearly, this can be a dialogue which is occurring for some months now. All of us pray for the second when the ceasefire is there, and hopefully a profitable peace deal is completed, however at the very least a ceasefire. And the Europeans, led by the French and the Brits and NATO, has been concerned in these talks, however clearly led by Macron of France and Starmer, the Prime Minister of United Kingdom, in shut cooperation with the US, are discussing, post-the-ceasefire, post-the-peace-deal, how will we guarantee that the safety ensures are in place? And this can be vital additionally post-next-Friday, if this is able to lead the Friday session to extra severe peace talks, as a result of in terms of territory, it would at all times go hand in hand with the safety ensures for Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I perceive that there have been NATO representatives listening in that assembly with Vice President Vance and European nationwide safety advisors yesterday. NATO has been coordinating the supply of weapons bought by NATO members to assist out Ukraine. A couple of billion in army support, I perceive, has been facilitated from the US to Ukraine. Are there plans that these weapons deliveries will proceed, no matter what occurs on Friday?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: Completely, they are going to proceed. So, we had the primary two packages dedicated by the Dutch after which by the Scandinavians. I count on additional bulletins within the coming days and weeks. And that is essential. Mainly, President Trump, as I stated, opening the floodgates of deadly army support into Ukraine once more. Paid by the Europeans and Canada, which I feel is just logical and honest. And this course of has began, in fact, on prime of what the Europeans are already doing, together with investing within the protection industrial base in Ukraine. And, as you stated, NATO is coordinating all of this by our instructions in Wiesbaden, ensuring that Ukraine has what it wants to remain within the battle and be in the absolute best place in terms of negotiations on a ceasefire, slash a peace deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that is not up for negotiation on Friday?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: My absolute conviction on Friday is that that is President Trump ensuring that Putin is severe, and if he’s not, then it would cease there. If he’s severe, then from Friday onwards, the method will proceed. Ukraine getting concerned, the Europeans being concerned. And the US is already coordinating, such as you stated, final night time in London, with International Minister Lammy of the UK, senior officers from NATO and European international locations within the European Fee, with the Vice President, to guarantee that we’re all on the identical web page. Putin won’t ever, ever be capable of divide the alliance. The most important overseas coverage success of President Trump is the NATO Summit. A United NATO, a united alliance, and Putin won’t ever get in between us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, we now have to take President Trump at his phrase, and on Friday, when he spoke in entrance of the cameras, he stated there can be some swapping of territories to the betterment of each Ukraine and Russia. I imply, you recognize, Ukraine doesn’t maintain Russian land, and Russia has about 20% of Ukraine. What’s he speaking about?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: Clearly, what can be on the desk when actual peace talks, slash the ceasefire dialogue, will happen is that this challenge of, on the one hand, safety ensures, then again, the best way to cope with the factual scenario that the Russians are holding, at this second, Ukrainian territory. Crucially vital right here is that in terms of this holding of Ukrainian territory, that there is likely to be a factual scenario that they’re doing this, however that we will by no means settle for that in a authorized sense, in,, as that is referred to as, a de jure sense, as you recognize, the US hosted embassies with Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia between 1940 and 1991 acknowledging that the Soviet Union was controlling these territories, however by no means accepting, in a authorized sense, in a de jure sense, that truth. So all these points can be on the desk, hopefully, post-Friday, if Putin is severe, and Putin then has to commit to take a seat down with Zelensky. He can not do that by President Trump. In the long run, it must be, as President Trump has acknowledged himself, a three-way dialog, at the very least, with the Europeans closely concerned.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, do I perceive what you are saying right here appropriately? When you’re speaking about authorized recognition versus de facto, are you saying that, mainly, the world is making ready to permit Russia to carry on to Crimea, the Donbas, the japanese a part of Ukraine, however then simply not legally acknowledge it?
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: No. What I am saying is that, ultimately, the difficulty of the truth that the Russians are controlling, at this second, factually, part of Ukraine must be on the desk, that any dialogue going ahead from there can be with Ukrainians deciding on what they wish to do in phrases —
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, as a result of that sounds such as you’re saying they do not should withdraw their troops.
SECRETARY GENERAL RUTTE: Clearly, they should, however factually, they’re controlling part of Ukraine at this second, as you stated. And as Ukrainians have stated earlier than, if a ceasefire dialogue takes place as quickly as potential, and hopefully negotiations on a peace deal, there would be the debate on the best way to take that ahead, beginning at the moment line of contact. However it’s essential to know that in terms of the longer term geopolitical scenario of Ukraine, their sovereignty, there can be no infringement on that, and that it is at all times Ukraine itself deciding on what they wish to do or not wish to do when it comes to a peace deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, Secretary Rutte, thanks in your time.
