The next is the transcript of the interview with Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Dec. 7, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to Face The Nation. We flip now to the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes. He joins us this morning from Connecticut. Welcome again to Face The Nation.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Thanks for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re one of many few lawmakers proven the categorised model of this September 2 video of the U.S. strikes an alleged drug boat close to Venezuela, 4 strikes in whole, we’ve got discovered. You met with Admiral Bradley, who instructions particular operations as nicely. The President of the US says he’s open to this video being made public. Do you suppose it’s important that it grow to be public, and are you assured it is going to be?
REP. HIMES: I believe it is actually vital that this video be made public. It isn’t misplaced on anybody, after all, that the interpretation of the video, which you understand, six or seven of us had a possibility to see final week, broke down exactly on get together traces. And so that is an occasion by which I believe the American public wants to guage for itself. I understand how the general public goes to be react- goes to react as a result of I felt my very own response. You realize, I’ve spent years taking a look at movies of deadly motion taken, usually within the terrorism context, and this video was profoundly shaking- shaken, and I believe it is vital for People to see it. As a result of, look, there’s a certain quantity of there’s a certain quantity of sympathy on the market for going after drug runners, however I believe it is actually vital that folks see what it seems to be like when the complete power the US navy is turned on two guys who’re clinging to a chunk of wooden and about to go below simply in order that they’ve type of a visceral really feel for what it’s that we’re doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why was it- why did it shake you a lot? What particularly was bothering you?
REP. HIMES: Properly, you understand, and that is type of the excellence, and there is a lot to unpack right here about whether or not that is a licensed navy motion, which it’s not, and proper on down as to whether these have been legitimate- reliable targets, they usually weren’t. However let me return to a few of the critiques I’ve completed of different deadly motion. Oftentimes, when the Division of Protection takes a strike towards a terrorist in Yemen or Pakistan or wherever, you watch a video of men totally armed with AK-47s and sidearms and bombs and also you identify it, they usually’re on their method to do one thing horrible. And on this occasion, you will have had dangerous guys, I’ve little question that these guys have been concerned within the operating of medicine. Now, whether or not they have been operating it to the US or Europe is one more query. However in that occasion, these guys have been about to die. Had the US simply walked away, their little piece of wooden would have gone below the waves. And as many occasions as Tom Cotton might say that it would not matter what they have been doing, it issues basically what they have been doing. As a result of below the legislation, and when you spent quarter-hour in legislation faculty, you understand this, below the legislation, if somebody has been struck and is- continues to interact in hostilities, factors a gun at you, has a gun, they could be a reliable goal. But when they’re outdoors of fight, they aren’t and attacking them is a violation of the legal guidelines of warfare. And these guys, and that is why the American individuals have to see this video. These guys have been, have been barely alive, a lot much less partaking in hostilities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the DOD legislation of warfare guide appears to hinge plenty of that on whether or not the individual is wholly disabled from preventing, and that’s the place the Secretary of Protection has used language saying they’re about to return to the battle. I’ll play for you what Secretary Hegseth mentioned on the Reagan Discussion board Saturday. He described what was taking place with these 4 strikes on the alleged drug operating boat.
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE PETE HEGSETH ON TAPE: A pair hours later, I used to be instructed, hey, there needed to be a reattack, as a result of there have been a pair people that would nonetheless be within the battle. Entry to radios, there was a hyperlink up level of one other potential boat, medication have been nonetheless there, they have been actively interacting with them. Needed to take that reattack. I mentioned, Roger, sounds good.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does what Hegseth mentioned match what Admiral Bradley instructed you?
REP. HIMES: Properly, there was plenty of lack of readability over precisely what Pete Hegseth’s position right here was, however Pete Hegseth has no credibility on this matter, proper? Keep in mind, per week after this strike, there was a briefing for Congress. Why was a observe up strike taken? The reply then, within the first week of September, was a observe up strike was taken as a result of we wanted to clear the wreckage in order that there wasn’t a hazard to navigation. That was clarification primary. Clarification quantity two, proper earlier than we watched the video, was that they may have had a radio, they usually may need been radioing a ship, they usually may need been attempting to get well the cocaine. After which while you truly watch the video, you notice they do not have a radio. They’re barely hanging on and never slipping beneath the waves. Then we get this factor of how they’re attempting to proper the boat. This was a couple of 40 foot boat that had simply been hit with an enormous piece of munitions. The conflagration most likely destroyed all the pieces in that boat. However, oh, possibly they may have swum below, gotten a radio, most likely waterlogged, and radioed a ship that we’re not even certain was there. So what we have had is a sequence of shifting explanations. Oh, and together with the fog of warfare, proper? You realize that Hegseth mentioned, nicely, they took the second strike due to the fog of warfare. There was no fog. The navy watched this boat very fastidiously, or I should not even say, boat, they watched the wreckage of the boat very fastidiously for an extended time frame earlier than they took the second strike. So, look, what Pete Hegseth says about this strike has zero credibility at this level.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you could have confidence in Admiral Bradley?
REP. HIMES: You realize Admiral Bradley, this was my first assembly with him. Anybody who has ever labored with Admiral Bradley will let you know that he has a storied profession and that he’s a person of deep, deep integrity. And albeit, I’ve no purpose to doubt that. What it raises is, what occurs when an apparently good man like Admiral Bradley is positioned in a context the place he is aware of that if he countermands an order that he’s maybe uncomfortable with, it is rather possible that he will likely be fired. When he works for a man, Pete Hegseth, who wrote a e book about how we should not observe the legal guidelines of warfare, about how we must be deadly in [unintelligible]. It is fascinating to consider how a very good man in that context possibly does one thing that, if he weren’t in that context, he won’t do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, Senator Tom Cotton, the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, mentioned there have been dozens of JAG law- legal professionals observing all of this. On NBC this morning he mentioned all 11 individuals on the suspected drug smuggling boat have been legitimate targets as a result of the U.S. had excessive confidence they have been a part of a international terrorist group. Are you aware, have been these excessive stage cartel members?
REP. HIMES: No, after all not. In fact not.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who have been they, if the U.S. had excessive confidence–
REP. HIMES: You suppose Pablo Escobar back- nicely, to start with, to start with, let’s be tremendous clear about this. I do not suppose we knew the identities of any of the individuals within the boat. We would have recognized one or two, I do not know, however we definitely did not know the identities of all 11. So no person can characterize who all these individuals in any of those boats are. Now, I’ve sufficient confidence within the intelligence group to know that these are most likely not guys out fishing or guys out, you understand, being vacationers and stuff. They’re virtually definitely operating medication. However this actually issues given that you mentioned. You realize, if you are going to occupy an immense quantity of the American naval fight functionality, you’d prefer to imagine that you are going after the leaders, the cartel leaders, the- the kingpins, as they are saying. What we’re doing right here is we’re taking out the equal of the nook drug seller within the Bronx, proper? Which, by the best way, we should always arrest the nook drug seller within the Bronx. However the primary purpose we do that’s to go after the kingpins who, I promise you, are sitting in very comfy villas proper now in Colombia and Venezuela and all over the place, and watching as a lot of the US Navy is devoted to taking out their lowest stage staff.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I hear you saying they weren’t on an inside navy goal listing for prime worth people. That is what I hear, what you are saying.
REP. HIMES: Properly, that is an fascinating query. I am by no means satisfied that there’s a listing of people. Now, that is what we do within the terrorism world, proper? We designate excessive worth targets. We designate people. I’ve no purpose to imagine, and in reality, I doubt that there are any people on the listing wherever. What we’re doing, and I am not going to get terribly particular about it, for apparent causes, however what we’re doing is we’re selecting up that this boat could also be carrying medication, and to the administration, it would not matter who’s in that boat, because- and look, they’re saying this, as a result of if this boat is definitely carrying medication, then we are able to strike it. So no, I do not suppose there’s a listing of people. I do not suppose we’ve got any thought who exactly the people in these boats are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In order I perceive it, these are signature strikes. That is an intelligence evaluation based mostly on indicators intelligence saying that is who we imagine these people to be. You realize, a few of these defenders of the Trump coverage, like conservative columnists, have argued this can be a precedent that was set by the Obama administration, which used signature strikes to kill alleged al Qaeda operatives, together with a U.S. citizen at one level in Yemen. Have they got some extent right here that the drone coverage has lengthy allowed the killing of suspected criminals, even with out due course of?
REP. HIMES: Properly, there’s a few actually vital distinctions, and you may keep in mind that the Obama administration, there was plenty of debate over whether or not signature strikes have been okay or not. Crucial distinction is that Congress licensed the warfare on terror. There was an authorization for using navy power. The unique sin of this entire factor, whether or not you suppose we needs to be losing these guys or not, the unique sin is that there is no such thing as a congressional authorization. After which within the Obama administration, they did have an inventory of people, proper? Usually excessive worth targets, or HVTs as we have referred to them. After which the query was, if in case you have an HVT, a excessive worth goal, in a jeep in northern Pakistan, and there is a man subsequent to that HVT, you understand, how do you’re feeling about taking that strike? You need to take down the excessive worth man, however what in regards to the younger man subsequent to him? Properly, the younger man has an AK 47 and the younger man was truly arranging for the switch of explosives. You could have that dialog, and then you definately resolve whether or not you are gonna take the strike. Proper now what we’re doing, and once more, don’t- I do not suppose that there is a listing of people wherever. They’re simply saying that boat is carrying medication. And though navy is just not licensed by the Congress of the US, we’re taking out the boat, and we do not give a rattling about who’s on it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, and while you say “I do not suppose,” you’re a member of the Gang of Eight, so presumably that data needs to be shared with you if it does exist. I need to ask you earlier than I allow you to go. Signalgate, individuals might bear in mind just a few months in the past, the Trump- a Trump official added a journalist to a web-based group on Sign and shared superior data of an upcoming bombing operation in Yemen. The Pentagon Inspector Common mentioned Hegseth’s actions risked operational safety and violated federal legal guidelines on report preserving. Hegseth mentioned he’d do the identical factor over again. Are your Republican colleagues saying in personal that they’ve issues with what occurred?
REP. HIMES: Completely, they’re saying it in personal. In public, after all, they’re saying that it was excellent exoneration, proper? That this report, and also you learn the important thing line, that this report that mentioned that the Secretary of Protection put his troops within the mission in danger, that that is whole exoneration. Now, I did not hear the remark about I might do that once more. But when Pete Hegseth mentioned he would try this again- and look, once more, you do not must be a navy knowledgeable to know that sharing operational particulars earlier than an operation is a very, actually, actually dangerous thought. If Pete Hegseth mentioned that, that he would try this once more, you understand, he is simply reinforcing what everyone knows, which is that he has completely no enterprise in that job. One of the crucial delicate and tough jobs to do in the US authorities is being completed by any person who put his personal individuals and the mission in danger.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He mentioned he lives life with out remorse on the Reagan Discussion board, that was the phrase, to be extra actual. However Congressman Himes, at all times good to have you ever on this system. I am going to have to depart it there for in the present day. We’ll be proper again.
