The next is the transcript of the interview with Retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Oct. 5, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to the previous Commanding Normal of the U.S. Military in Europe, retired Lieutenant Normal Ben Hodges. And he joins us from Germany. Welcome to ‘Face The Nation.’
LIEUTENANT GENERAL (RETIRED) BEN HODGES: Thanks very a lot, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to choose up- choose up the place we left off with Senator Duckworth, who’s a Purple Coronary heart recipient for her time serving this nation in fight. Women and men have completely different fundamental health requirements. The Secretary, in his remarks at Quantico, stated women- or he urged ladies have been being given a cross or have been held to decrease requirements for health necessities. Do you assume his change to the quote unquote male commonplace is important?
LT. GEN. (RET.) HODGES: I believe that is fully pointless. I’ve 38 years within the Military, and we have served with ladies in all types of various environments and deployments, and I by no means had a case the place a feminine soldier was not in a position to do what she needed to do. So that is a- appears to me an pointless, nearly a medieval strategy, that does not replicate the necessities that we’ve for ladies and men who’re clever, in a position to function in a contemporary battlefield atmosphere.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Protection Secretary made these remarks at Quantico final week, as you properly know, ordered in our most senior navy officers to listen to him lay out what he talked about when it comes to altering guidelines of engagement, these codes of conduct and requirements to make struggle much less brutal. The Secretary stated this.
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SECRETARY PETE HEGESTH: We additionally do not battle with silly guidelines of engagement. We untie the palms of our struggle fighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the enemies of our nation. No extra politically right and overbearing guidelines of engagement. Simply frequent sense, most lethality and authority for struggle fighters.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you make of these directives to officers?
LT. GEN. (RET.) HODGES: Nicely, that’s- that is not going to assist anyone accomplish their mission. I imply, when you consider the missions that we had in Afghanistan, for instance, and I believe that is the place a few of his expertise comes from. It was to guard Afghan civilians in order that they may reestablish authorities and safe themselves, and so it was not about what number of Taliban may you kill. We had already tried that, and that did not work. So the principles of engagement should not ‘politically right.’ They are not supposed to make it more durable for troopers or models to do their job. They really are a part of the mission. Why are we there? And so I haven’t got any expertise the place killing lots of harmless individuals or violating the Geneva Conference goes to assist accomplish the mission. I believe that the concept that we should- that in some way goes to make us higher and simpler by individuals not having to fret concerning the legislation goes to be dangerous for us in the long run as properly, each psychologically for troopers, but in addition the belief of the American individuals and of our allies and American forces, the place we’ve all the time lived as much as worldwide legislation, and that’s the place lots of the respect got here from. We don’t need to be just like the Russian military, they usually definitely don’t be concerned about guidelines of engagement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the Geneva Conventions are one thing that the Secretary, as a non-public citizen, wrote about in his e-book and questioned whether or not they need to be adopted in any respect. He stated, ‘What if we handled the enemy the way in which they handled us?’ And if I imply, he talked about Al Qaeda and utilizing a few of their techniques, it- rip their arms off, feed them to the hogs. I imply, this sounds powerful, however when it comes to apply, does it threat the lives of- of those that are the set off pullers, those that are on the bottom, to have this message delivered from the best ranges?
LT. GEN. (RET.) HODGES: Nicely, to begin with, the Geneva Conventions have been constructed beginning in 1949 after the Second World Conflict, they usually have been supposed to guard harmless individuals, helpless individuals, non-combatants, from the ravages of struggle, because it did occur within the Second World Conflict. And I do not assume anyone would say that Dwight Eisenhower was woke and right here he was- he was Chief of Employees of the Military, after which Supreme Allied Commander, after which President. So this was throughout his time that america helped create and signal the Geneva Conventions. So here is a man with extra fight expertise and wartime expertise than nearly anyone. Now, the- when you consider fashionable warfare, particularly whenever you’re counter terrorism, simply as Secretary Rubio was describing earlier in your program, the individuals, the way you cope with enemy and the way you cope with populations, is the way you defeat an insurgency. And killing all people in sight shouldn’t be the way you defeat an insurgency.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As Protection Secretary Hegseth fired the highest navy attorneys who advise on lethality, here is a few of the recommendation he gave to senior leaders this week.
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SECRETARY PETE HEGESTH: You kill individuals and break issues for a residing on this career, you’re feeling comfy contained in the violence in order that our residents can dwell peacefully. Lethality is our calling card and victory our solely acceptable finish state.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you assume meaning?
BEN HODGES: Nicely, to begin with, it is not linked to the truth of how these items occur, how wars are received. Initially, the political management has to explain the top state. What’s what’s it we will do? Why are we sending troops someplace? What are they supposed to perform? And often it is not going to be by killing all people in sight. So I can not- I believe there is a disconnect between this concept that it is all about lethality and that we kill individuals and break issues. That is- that is not the mantra of any military unit I used to be ever in in 38 years. It was all the time about accomplish the mission that was assigned to us, perform each lawful order, and do it in such a method that protects civilians and ensures that each one of our troopers are protected and are available again house secure. This concept of break issues and kill individuals, that is what the Russians did in Bucha and Mariupol. That is not who we’re. We are the troopers of a free, democratic nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The President additionally spoke at that gathering. He referred to the ‘enemy inside’. He additionally spoke about utilizing U.S. cities like Chicago as coaching grounds. Are you comfy with individuals considering that?
LT. GEN. (RET.) HODGES: Nicely, look, I believe to begin with, U.S. military- our fellow residents needs to be assured that U.S. navy will all the time perform lawful orders. And so it is alarming when all the decide advocates normal or the army- or the navy attorneys are sacked or despatched away as a result of Commanders do must have authorized counsel as they obtain orders they usually take a look at these advanced conditions, however our troops will perform lawful orders. I assure you that no soldier desires to have to make use of drive towards American individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lieutenant Normal, thanks to your insights. Now we have to go away it there.
